Should a male dog with a food allergy be used to stud? - Page 1

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nypiper127

by nypiper127 on 07 July 2012 - 04:07

I asked this question of my vet while bringing my guy in for his Lyme booster.  He couldn't answer the question and called in his two other partners who then had a great discussion as to wether allergies are genetic or environmental etc.  The funny thing is that after about 10 minutes they all agreed to disagree.  Two said they would breed and one said they wouldn't.  It seemed to me that allergies are too complex and little is understood about them to get a definate answer either way.  Does anyone have any experiences / opinions on this.
Of course we are assuming certified hips elbows etc.  Don't want this thread to get sidetracked on who should breed etc.  Just want to focus on allergies being passed on to litters by sire or dam.

Thanks in advance


TingiesandTails

by TingiesandTails on 07 July 2012 - 04:07

Decide for yourself if the dog in question suffers from environmentally induced allergy (e.g. feed with lots chicken stuffed with antibiotics) or is it an allergy with a severe reaction like skin rash or breathing difficulties?

Feeding issues can be easily dealt with, but if dogs have to take medication for their allergies I would not breed them.

yellowrose of Texas

by yellowrose of Texas on 07 July 2012 - 05:07

 NO

by hexe on 07 July 2012 - 05:07

No.  Whether hereditable or acquired, allergies ARE indicative of a flawed immune system, and therefore the animal is NOT physiologically normal...and only animals which are both physiologically and phenotypically normal should be used as breeding stock, especially for species that aren't being raised as food animals.

That said, there are plenty of people who can, will and do rationalize and justify their way through that fact, and will use the animal anyway--especially if they've paid several thousand dollars for the animal as a pup and put additional expense into training, titling, etc. Likewise if they've paid tens of thousands of dollars for an adult animal.

Thus we have the decline in the physical resiliance and the ability to resist or recover from illness within the breed.  Fifty years ago, when treatment for the various allergic conditions were not so readily identified or available, such dogs would not have thrived, and probably would have live shortened lives if they lived at all, and consequently would not have been considered suitable breeding candidates. 

Owners of affected dogs should love their dogs, and give them the best medical care available to them, but they should NOT be breeding them.

Unfortunately, there's no way to make this so, what with free will and all that...

marjorie

by marjorie on 07 July 2012 - 05:07

NO!

ziegenfarm

by ziegenfarm on 07 July 2012 - 05:07

agree with those saying NO......100%
pjp

by minro on 07 July 2012 - 06:07

No. Those two vets sound like idiots, no offense. No no no.

GSDguy08

by GSDguy08 on 07 July 2012 - 10:07

Dogs probably wouldn't have so many food allergies today if foods didn't have all of these chemicals and crap in them. Same for people.....

EuroShepherd

by EuroShepherd on 07 July 2012 - 11:07


My first GSD had a lot of skin allergy issues, she had only been fed a kibble diet her whole life and I think there is a strong possibility that her allergy issues were environmentally related. (note; even though she was Czech import workingline with great pedigree and rock solid temperament, she was never bred-she also had mild HD in one hip) 

Now my dogs are fed a primarily homemade meal with raw meat and bones.  I buy mostly organic and/or locally produced foods that come from farms that don't use chemicals, I also buy certified humane raised meat as often as possible (my eggs and some of my dairy and meat/bones comes from friends with farms that I personally know who don't load their animals with antibiotics and chemicals and who do allow their animals free range pasture.)
None of my dogs I have now have allergies of any kind, I would never breed a dog who has allergies while being fed the kind of diet I feed now. 

nypiper127

by nypiper127 on 07 July 2012 - 13:07

I tend also to agree with the "No" answers but it is the simple easy answer.  It is the "better safe than sorry" answer but it doesn't really address wether allergies are a trait that will always be passed on...are they in the genes and if they are...is it recessive etc...
The Vets are not idiots and it was a fascinating conversation.  What was interesting is that they thoroughly enjoyed their debate and found it interesting that they couldn't come up with an answer.  Also interesting is that among the three of them...they spanned three generations.  They are a family operation (all educated at Cornell in NY).  There is a Grandfather, Son and now nephew.  The conversation went from canine to human back to canine.  Part of the conversation included exposing babies / puppies to certain foods / chemicals / allergens at the wrong time (completely a current theory and not fact).  During this point of the conversation one of the older vets said "Its like peanut allergies in kids....during my time you never heard or saw such a thing".  Found it interesting.
To clarify....I have no dog in this fight (pun intended).  This was brought up when my vet asked me why I won't breed my guy.  He is crazy about him (can't blame him).  I told him it was because of the food allergy he had as a puppy.  It was either something in kibble or chicken.  I put him on raw and he has been fine ever since (no chicken).  When I had him tested for other allergens he also tested positive for dust mites but when food was swittched...no allergies...go figure.
Vets were against raw (shocker) but now cannot deny results.
But I am getting sidetracked...so...aside from genetics...I have no room for another GSD let alone puppies in the house!  I just found it interesting and thought others might also.

Now...the best way to learn, is from past experiences and or mistakes.  I was hoping people would share their experiences but now I fear some might be afraid to share their experiences for fear of being ridiculed on here.  There is obviously no clear answer "on the books".  If three vets could not agree on an answer I think it is definately worth a good discussion on here.  I know for a fact that there are several people on this board that are "experts" on genetics.  

I also do agree with Hexe on the $$$$ issue.  I think that is a serious problem and also think that because allergies are not readily seen, they are easily hidden from any scrutiny placed on a breeding program.  I also think that it is probably something a breeder could blame on the new owner of a puppy because there is no proof of genetic related issues (but that is an entirely different thread...or two).
So..back on point...if anyone has had experiences with this...or heard of them...feel free!  Would also love to hear any and all good theories.

Litters with allergies.....all puppies?  Some puppies? One puppy?
Sire allergies...dam no allergies....puppys?
Both Sire and dam allergies.....puppies?
No allergies in Europe...brought here...new allergies? Other way around?  Left coast to right coast? North to south? Same thing.

If one had the "perfect" dog (no side threads on "perfect"...just trying to encourage discussion here) that was truly an asset to the breed...(be it working or show) a dog that was truly amazing...BUT he had an allergy...would it not be worth breeding him in an effort to breed the allergy out of the line?  Or again, is too little known about allergies and genetics to even attempt it?
Food for thought...







 


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