Experiences from breeding showlines with working lines - Page 2

The conformation of the two lines is what differentiates them in workability, structurally. Crossing the lines to cause the WL to have the same extremes in build as SLs will render them useless for their work. The two lines are fundamentally two different breeds. It has taken many generations to get them to this point and attempting to undo what many, many people have worked diligently to maintain(two totally separate lines or breeds) would be be the ruination of the real GSD.

 Rass:

 and I quote:

 "Raiser has not helped it either"




             Raiser is one of the few in Germany who absolutely know what it will take to save the breed and the true direction it needs to go. Your comment show,s lack of knowledge and vision...
 

Petros, IMO the working line dogs should still be able to make good pets/companions as that is where most of the puppies end up!  Even if someone works the dog, it often still lives in the house with the family.  My high drive working line dogs are awesome pets/companions, wonderful with my 2 1/2 year old daughter and are pleasant to have in the house.  A good working line dog should have an "on/off switch"... be able to turn it on when it is time to work, turn it off when it is time to relax.  My two SchH girls are laying beside me right now relaxing.  If I were to stand up and say "lets go" it would be a race for the door lol  

Of course if a pet owner is wanting a couch potato who does nothing all day, the GSD breed is not for them.  But there is no reason a good working line dog cannot make a good active family companion.  

Joanro, your post made alot of sense. Let those who want to breed for show/pet purpose breed for just that and get by with their titles and health requirements. And let those breeding for sport/work do the same.

It sucks that the breed is so divided, but it is what it is. Border Collies have the same issues and arguments as we all do with GSDs.

I like Margit van Dorssen's Lotte von Arlett: http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/70368/Lotte-von-Arlett

And when you look at Lotte's first litter (under "Nachkommen" - offspring), you will see that Margit took her to another show-workingline cross male (Hoogan vom Vorderhain who was also shown at the German Sieger Show and at the LGA and the German Youth Championship to 11th place) and got two really nice black females out of that breeding. Very promising! Way to go!
I have mentioned it here on the PDB a few years ago and will do it again: Big name breeders in Germany have done some of these crosses and work to refine it. I have talked to a known breeder in Germany about it and he said that these will be the dogs with a future - not the overangulated dogs with weak hocks (this was a direct quote). Margit's breeding with Lotte is just one example, there will be more. Just see how many showline breeders used Javir. They just do not advertise these kind of breedings but rather do it silently and continue with it - thank god!
By the way, Lotte is not an accident. I know her brother Levis as well. A nice V-rated male with super bitework and great personality! I spent a day with him a few years ago in Germany. http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/490604/Levis-von-Arlett

I always did like you Silbersee.  I am glad some breeders don't feel the need to toot their own horn, but rather let the dogs speak for themselves. 

Beautiful dogs, Chris. Looks like they both got the best of both "lines". Are you breeding showlines x workinglines too?

Thanks beetree! The feeling is mutual ;-)
Yes, Blitzen. I have done a cross - my T-litter, born in December of 2008. They were out of VA-Arko vom Butjenter Land and my workingline foundation dam V-Chuckie vom Schloß Laer. Chuckie is now retired and lives a happy farm life but she was one of these rare producers. In my opinion, one of the best workingline females to come to this country. If I would have had more space, time and supporters, most of the puppies she produced would have stayed.
We kept 3 females back from that T-litter. Taiga went to Germany at about 5 months but the guy who had her sold her to DVG-people because she was a bit small. For the same reason, I sold our Tanja to a law enforcement officer as a personal companion. Trixi went to a good friend of mine in upstate New York and works in Search and Rescue. Tillie is also active in AKC sports, rallye and agility and holds a few titles. A couple of regulars here know her better than I do.
So, I ended up not keeping anything out of that litter because my choices were a bit too small and compact in size for my taste as a breeding female but I really liked that litter in uniformity and temperament. I won't hesitate to do such a cross again but the dogs should be matched up wisely. It is best to use proven and consistent producers, so there is predictability (is that the right word, lol).
Here is a list with photos of the T-litter (just scroll down to the litter out of VA-Arko vom Butjenter Land): http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=400203&p=progeny

Showlines can potentially be "improved" by breeding into working lines. Will take many generationes (to remove wierd hind ends) Get that. Don't get that working lines need anything from showlines. The working lines are very diverse and have plenty of pet-quality offspring available for the average owner.