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by jaymesie51 on 20 April 2010 - 19:04
Here is the meaning of discrimination treating a person or particular group of people differently, especially in a worse way from the way in which you treat other people, because of their skin colour, religion, sex, etc. holding a meeting with the signing clubs to discuss there way forward can never be described as discrimingating it is what it is a meeting for the clubs that signed the undertaking only
jim h
jim h
by Videx on 20 April 2010 - 19:04
I have no intention of bullying you Jim - I am now convinced of your limitations. I do not do "simple".
by Sue B on 20 April 2010 - 20:04
Hi Jim,
I know the KC informed us prior that they were only going to talk to the clubs that signed, but since we are all KC registered as Breed Clubs and all pay the same Breed Club registration fee's, the fact that the KC are, as your dictionary definition states,;- ".....treating a particular group of people differently" , is in fact discrimination. Of course your argument that those clubs signing the Undertaking now belong to a different group of clubs, to which you are correct and therefore have a point, but where does that leave the non CC status Breed Clubs who were never given the option to sign or not to sign?? So what group are they in??
To sum up, IMO both you and Videx have made a valid point re discrimination and I can see both sides and if it were not for the Open Show Clubs who were never given a choice one way or the other I would possibly have to agree with you, however unless you and everyone else is prepared to accept the KC have now created THREE BREED CLUB GROUPS, those that signed, those that didn't and those who were never given a chance, then I see no option but to totally agree with Videx that the KC have indeed acted discriminateingly in this matter. Despite the fact we were previously informed this would happen, would I otherwise have been surprised, NO, nothing the KC do undemocratically or discriminatingly surprises me anymore.
Best Regards
Sue b
I know the KC informed us prior that they were only going to talk to the clubs that signed, but since we are all KC registered as Breed Clubs and all pay the same Breed Club registration fee's, the fact that the KC are, as your dictionary definition states,;- ".....treating a particular group of people differently" , is in fact discrimination. Of course your argument that those clubs signing the Undertaking now belong to a different group of clubs, to which you are correct and therefore have a point, but where does that leave the non CC status Breed Clubs who were never given the option to sign or not to sign?? So what group are they in??
To sum up, IMO both you and Videx have made a valid point re discrimination and I can see both sides and if it were not for the Open Show Clubs who were never given a choice one way or the other I would possibly have to agree with you, however unless you and everyone else is prepared to accept the KC have now created THREE BREED CLUB GROUPS, those that signed, those that didn't and those who were never given a chance, then I see no option but to totally agree with Videx that the KC have indeed acted discriminateingly in this matter. Despite the fact we were previously informed this would happen, would I otherwise have been surprised, NO, nothing the KC do undemocratically or discriminatingly surprises me anymore.
Best Regards
Sue b
by jaymesie51 on 20 April 2010 - 20:04
OH here we go when someone proves you wrong you go on the name calling how very grown up of you David TYPICAL
Davd do read my explanation of discrimination underneath
OK so that you all understand this is a meeting for those that are entitled to attend and these are the signing clubs now if the KC did not invite all of the signing clubs to this meeting and decided only such and such club could attend then they would be discriminating against the ones they did not invite That is signing clubs only) Sue do you think that you should attend say a bulldog meeting and if you dont get invited do you then think you have been discriminated against no i did'nt think you would it is the same with this meeting the clubs that did not sign are not entitled to attend this is NOT DISCRIMINATION. As for the clubs that did not get a vote that was because they did not hold CC status and therefor they cannot lose what they dont have.
jim h
Davd do read my explanation of discrimination underneath
OK so that you all understand this is a meeting for those that are entitled to attend and these are the signing clubs now if the KC did not invite all of the signing clubs to this meeting and decided only such and such club could attend then they would be discriminating against the ones they did not invite That is signing clubs only) Sue do you think that you should attend say a bulldog meeting and if you dont get invited do you then think you have been discriminated against no i did'nt think you would it is the same with this meeting the clubs that did not sign are not entitled to attend this is NOT DISCRIMINATION. As for the clubs that did not get a vote that was because they did not hold CC status and therefor they cannot lose what they dont have.
jim h
by Videx on 20 April 2010 - 21:04
The whole behaviour of the KC towards the GSD breed has been discriminatory, they are continuing in the same discriminatory manner. The Clubs that did not sign are still Kennel Club licensed GSD Breed Clubs. many have Championship Shows this year and next year, and some may even hold KC licensed shows in 2012 and onwards, and this meeting will discuss many issues outside of CC's which will have a direct bearing on ALL GSD Breed Clubs, and yet some have been EXCLUDED.
I will guarantee the only KC item non-signing clubs will be excluded from will be the CC's from 2012. I will go on to state the other items discussed will be enforced by the Kennel Club onto ALL GSD Breed Clubs holding KC licensed shows, including Open Shows.
I consider that ALL GSD breed Clubs should have been invited to this meeting for all items of the agenda - except the allocation of CC's item.
By excluding non-signing clubs, the Kennel Club is continuing to create division, resentment and discrimination amongst our GSD breed clubs and exhibitors, What the KC sow they will reap, be assured of that. However I am much more concerned about our breed clubs and our exhibitors.
On the other hand, the GSD League is firmly promoting a "fully inclusive" role for our breed and our breed clubs. With exhibitors having every right to enjoy "choice" here in Great Britain. The GSD League is without a doubt, currently the only real hope for exhibitors of the "correct GSD" in Great Britain, I sincerely hope the Kennel Club quickly realise the error of their current attitude and behaviour towards our breed and our breed clubs, so that "choice" for our GSD exhibitors is not seriously undermined.
The Kennel Club's attitude is divisive in its nature and in its intent
I will guarantee the only KC item non-signing clubs will be excluded from will be the CC's from 2012. I will go on to state the other items discussed will be enforced by the Kennel Club onto ALL GSD Breed Clubs holding KC licensed shows, including Open Shows.
I consider that ALL GSD breed Clubs should have been invited to this meeting for all items of the agenda - except the allocation of CC's item.
By excluding non-signing clubs, the Kennel Club is continuing to create division, resentment and discrimination amongst our GSD breed clubs and exhibitors, What the KC sow they will reap, be assured of that. However I am much more concerned about our breed clubs and our exhibitors.
On the other hand, the GSD League is firmly promoting a "fully inclusive" role for our breed and our breed clubs. With exhibitors having every right to enjoy "choice" here in Great Britain. The GSD League is without a doubt, currently the only real hope for exhibitors of the "correct GSD" in Great Britain, I sincerely hope the Kennel Club quickly realise the error of their current attitude and behaviour towards our breed and our breed clubs, so that "choice" for our GSD exhibitors is not seriously undermined.
The Kennel Club's attitude is divisive in its nature and in its intent
by Doppelganger on 20 April 2010 - 22:04
Well if they don't I am sure you will be the one to tell them. Just hope they don't think you are the official spokesperson for the League and the rest of us.
by Blerio on 21 April 2010 - 07:04
Why are people speculating what will be discussed at this meeting! Let's wait and see, I'm sure the detail will be on here very quickly. Jim is right, it's nothing to do with the 7 clubs, It wasn't long ago that certain people said they wanted nothing more to do with the K.C. Once again, let's concentrate on the future of the remaining clubs and not speculate what the K.C. will do. The worst they can do is terminate the 7 clubs K.C. membership. Then we would have to get on with it! Bill Owen.
by Videx on 21 April 2010 - 09:04
The Kennel Club have placed the following in their press statement:
"It will be a full day meeting covering canine conformation and movement as it relates to the German Shepherd Dog and a presentation on the education of judges. There will also be plenty of opportunity for discussion between the delegates and speakers."
It appears that some with mindsets fail to grasp the potential relevance to all GSD breed clubs that hold any KC licensed shows in the future.
personally I have no problem whatsoever in never attending a KC licensed breed club show ever again. I would be delighted if the Kennel Club only licensed General Championship Shows and left ALL the various breed clubs to organise their own "independent" breed club shows under their own set of rules & regulations, including breed Championship title opportunities if desired. This would enable each breed to develop its own criteria to suit their particular breed and make progress in keeping with their own desired pace. Without any interference from the Kennel Club. It is this last sentence which is currently the most difficult to ever envisage.
"It will be a full day meeting covering canine conformation and movement as it relates to the German Shepherd Dog and a presentation on the education of judges. There will also be plenty of opportunity for discussion between the delegates and speakers."
It appears that some with mindsets fail to grasp the potential relevance to all GSD breed clubs that hold any KC licensed shows in the future.
personally I have no problem whatsoever in never attending a KC licensed breed club show ever again. I would be delighted if the Kennel Club only licensed General Championship Shows and left ALL the various breed clubs to organise their own "independent" breed club shows under their own set of rules & regulations, including breed Championship title opportunities if desired. This would enable each breed to develop its own criteria to suit their particular breed and make progress in keeping with their own desired pace. Without any interference from the Kennel Club. It is this last sentence which is currently the most difficult to ever envisage.
by Aileen Ann Mathieson on 21 April 2010 - 09:04
The Kennel Club created this MESS so let them finish it or back down - which they certainly will not do.
ALL CLUBS who have paid their Maintenance of Title to the Kennel Club for this immediate year are entitled to be at any Meeting held by the KC whether they SIGNED OR NOT the reasons being -
SCENARIO - YOU ARE A MEMBER OF A UNION IN YOUR WORK - THERE IS A BALLOT ON A CERTAIN ISSUE - YOU PERSONALLY VOTE NO AND/OR A GROUP OF UNION MEMBERS VOTE NO - NO MATTER WHETHER THE BALLOT GOES FOR OR AGAINST YOUR VIEWS YOU ARE HOWEVER ENTITLED TO ATTEND ANY FURTHER MEETINGS THAT THE UNION CALL - THE UNION CANNOT CALL A MEETING FOR ONLY THOSE WHO VOTED YES.
The above applies to the KC - they cannot meet with the Signed Clubs whereby the impose their will on them and expect the Clubs who never had any say in the issues in the first place to accept these changes without any representation.
The Clubs who have NOT SIGNED have a choice - either protest about not being their if that is their wish OR do not pay your Maintenance of Title in the future and save your money and use it for the improvement of your Club/Group or the Breed.
The GSDL are correct to leave the door open to discussion, however ARE THEY INVITED?
Aileen
ALL CLUBS who have paid their Maintenance of Title to the Kennel Club for this immediate year are entitled to be at any Meeting held by the KC whether they SIGNED OR NOT the reasons being -
SCENARIO - YOU ARE A MEMBER OF A UNION IN YOUR WORK - THERE IS A BALLOT ON A CERTAIN ISSUE - YOU PERSONALLY VOTE NO AND/OR A GROUP OF UNION MEMBERS VOTE NO - NO MATTER WHETHER THE BALLOT GOES FOR OR AGAINST YOUR VIEWS YOU ARE HOWEVER ENTITLED TO ATTEND ANY FURTHER MEETINGS THAT THE UNION CALL - THE UNION CANNOT CALL A MEETING FOR ONLY THOSE WHO VOTED YES.
The above applies to the KC - they cannot meet with the Signed Clubs whereby the impose their will on them and expect the Clubs who never had any say in the issues in the first place to accept these changes without any representation.
The Clubs who have NOT SIGNED have a choice - either protest about not being their if that is their wish OR do not pay your Maintenance of Title in the future and save your money and use it for the improvement of your Club/Group or the Breed.
The GSDL are correct to leave the door open to discussion, however ARE THEY INVITED?
Aileen
by opa on 21 April 2010 - 09:04
K.C. A case of the TAIL WAGGING THE DOG.
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