Results of US Sieger Show 04 - Page 3

Answer to Sunshine: I was responding to Nicos and Shak who were talking about who else possibly could have been SG1 other than Ronaldo. I do not know if you were at the show, but I was at ring side when Herr Orschler stated in his critique of the SG4 dog, "This dog could have done much better today. He has not shown what he is capable of because he needs more training." Since the dog was 4th, I think this implies not 3rd or 2nd which are not that much better than 4th. Maybe you would interpret it differently. I did not say anything about nor was I talking about the SG3 dog, Galaxy von Ajay, an Ursus Batu son, a very nice dog owned by Marian Friedhoff. As for hearsay, I was personally with Herr Orschler, along with 6-8 other people, including Johannes Grewe, in the tent when Herr Orschler said that he considered the SG4 dog more or less of the same quality as Ronaldo and that it was a pity that he had not had more show ezperience. It is not hearsay. Herr Orschler made it abundantly clear he liked the SG4 very much. One example was when he gave dog was given a second chance to gait alone around the ring. Further Orschler commented that this dog would have no problem making the 1st ring in the Sieger show in Germany. That is high praise. So, in answer to the question of who else could possibly have been SG1, I would say, possibly the SG4 dog in the opinion of Orschler but for show training. Lastly, I am not suggesting that Ronaldo did not deserve to win. He is a very fine dog. He surely deserved to win on the day because he was better trained and did not prance as did the SG4 dog on several occasions. I am merely suggesting that there was a dog there of similar quality, in Orschler's opinion, to Ronaldo who would have would made it a close contest had he been better trained.

best regards linda with urban what a dog he is by va ghandi v arlette i have a girl by ghandi. gabi heller emailed me that he got two va 2 great job u did and a great dog a super male that is putting down the best of the best. congratulates to u and gabi heller i know well in germany i am in u.s.

Sorry Klossbruhe, I did not realize that you were one of the stewards of the event. Do you have any more insider information?

Sunshine, I was not a stewart of the event. I was at ringside and heard the actual evaluation in German (as well as the fairly accurate translation by Stephanie Dunion, the USA Translator) Herr Orschler made it pretty clear his high opinion of the SG4 dog to everyone there. But beyond that, later in the food tent, I sat with Herr Orschler, his wife, Mr Grewe (who judged the females) and several others. I had the opportunity to talk to him at length about that class, about Ronaldo and the SG4 dog, Santo von der Neuen Welt, whom he obviously liked very much, and it was clear that he felt frustrated with his placement and said the dog could "have done much better today" but its lack of training made it impossible for him to put the dog higher than 4th. He did not mention the SG2 dog Zeke vom Kirchenwald (a Natz van de Herdersfarm son) or the SG3 Galaxy von Ajaye in the conversation as being of the same quality of Ronaldo or being able to give Ronaldo a run for his money. He did not mention them at all. But he specifically did mention the SG4 dog and what a pity it was about the training and how good he was. (He is an American born and bred dog of American parents) Keep in mind, the SG4 dog did not entirely screw up, he did okay, and in certain stretches of fast gaiting he did really well and wowed the crowd, but the 2nd and 3rd dogs which were very good dogs, did not break into any galloping which the SG4 dog did from time to time, possibly because of his handler. It is hard to know. It may well be that the SG3 dog had a novice handler, but she did a better job than the handler of the SG4 dog. But in any event, at that level where the quality of all those dogs is high, stuff like that does make a difference to the judges.

Kloss, as you weren't a steward at the show, how did your dog do? As difficult as it is I have decided to withold my detailed commentary on what you have written above as it appears to speak for itself. Anyone can check out the NASS 2004 results and see where Santos placed there against Ronaldo. A private conversation you had with Mr. Orschler should have remained exactly that, private. I find it such a shame that some people feel compelled to minimize the achievements of others. It would only make sense if they themselves have something to gain from it. . . You must be familiar with the concept of good sportsmanship if you run a Schutzhund club. A fourth placement is excellent in what was a very good quality class with 11 SG's awarded. That means that Santo ran at the top of his class. Congratulations!

Dear Sunshine--I think you are getting somewhat carried away. Keep in mind that initially (before you jumped in) that I was replying to either Shak or Nicos who asked and implied there was no other dog there that could have competed with Ronaldo. I was not complaining about the dog's placement etc. (he got what he deserved on that day given his lack of training) Next, so as not to make it just sound like opinion, I provided Shak and Nicos the public evaluation by Orschler of the SG4 dog. From their comments it did not sound like they were at ringside. I mentioned only briefly the conversation in the tent to further back up what was said at ringside. When you suddenly jumped in and said "oh this is just hearsay etc," I felt compelled to explain at length. Lastly, it was not a "private" conversation. We were in the refreshment tent. There were 8 people at our table. Others were standing around. Anyone could have and may well have heard what Orschler had to say. It wasn't any secret, it just wasn't given over the PA system. With regard as to what happened at the NASS, I do not think it would be a productive use of time to discuss what happened there. I will say that anyone who was at both shows will tell you that Mr Orschler and Mr Setzer have very different modus operandi. Mr Orschler took his time and looked at every dog closely, every dog. I leave you to draw the implication. Mr. Setzer's reputation and breeding success speaks for itself. By the way, you will hear few or no complaints about Mr Grottendinck who did the females (I had one entered). Finally, Ronaldo was not in the same class at the NASS, he was the Jugend Sieger, i.e. he was in the 12-18 month group. He turned 18 on October 21. I hope you agree this has gone far enough and that there are better things, hopefully, to discuss now. If you have read my e-mails, you know that I am not interested in arguing with people or the petty personality stuff which goes on here, but only wish to provide information if it will be helpful. I will end with repeating that my goal in providing you with what Mr Orschler said in the tent was to make it plain to you that this was not hearsay, nothing more, and certainly not to complain about the way any dog was placed.

Well Kloss, I am not one for a fight either but I suppose what bothers me is that you are describing things relating to your own dog. At first you speak in the third person then admit it was you that was party to the conversations. And you keep referring to the original inquiry of Shak and Nicos who are looking for a non partial response to their query. Not one taken by an exhibitor speaking with the judge about their own dog. I think there is a difference. And I will call it quits because it is obvious to me in the meantime that you are the owner of SG4. With all the credibility you have won over your very knowledgeable commentaries, you have lost it with me over this. Sorry. By the way, I did not jump in. I responded. Perhaps the response is bothersome to you but this is a public forum. Time differences don't even mean anything here. And moreover, someone has to put up for the dogs that you have attempted to minimize.

Frame URL where you will find the USA Results: http://www.webhund.com/2004ss/catalog_results.htm