BARF Diet - Page 2

lhczth: thanks for the advice, I'll follow it. I also found aa company that provides green trip here in the UK Yummy!! can't wait. sgbh and oso: Commercial dog food are composed (most of them) of meat byproducts, additives, cereals, fillers and preservatives. The quality is variable for each batch as the manufacturer only has to keep to the percentages not to the sources. The poor quality, high energy foods make puppies grow too fast not allowing their skeletons to develop properly and creating excess charges on hips that have initially poor conformation (in the case of hip dysplasia - The causative factors of hip dysplasia are not really known but there is probably a genetic factor. Degenerative joint disease can follow and then you have a clinical case of hip dysplasia (not all dogs with bad hips show clinical signs). High energy food with poor quality components provoques accelerated aging and the development of a number of diseases including some cancers (just imagine someone living on bigs macs exclusively for 5-6 years). Various amounts of cereals (not a food that is approproate for a dog or a cat maybe a cow or a horse) create allergies that manifest themselves a skin problems. All I remember is that when I was a kid (a while ago I'm afraid) our dogs ate meat and veggies. I can't remember ever taking them to the vet and they all dies at home of old age. When I went to vet school in the 80's the dog food companies used to woo us by sellindg us 30lb bags of food for 5 bucks. Our teachers use to promote whatever the brand from whatever company sponsors their research program. It just took a while for me to start questioing all this and this is my first experiment. I think I'm doing the right thing and thanks for all your help.

Here's a website that can give much better info than I can and also refers you to source. Some eminent British Veterinary Homeopaths belong to the board. http://members.aol.com/abywood/www/chc_what.htm The Canine Health Census

Wildthing: thanks, had a look at the website. its the same principle as the barf diet. Looks good. oso: you should ask your vet what parasites he is concerned about? Toxo has virtually been eradicated from pork and all the pork is human grade. Beef does not have any parasites anymore either and is eaten rare by lots of humans. Chickens should not have parasites. Salmonella is very closely monitored and freezing eradicates it. Human grade sheep and lamb should not have echinococcus either. E. coli is monitored. Wild game parasites can be taken care of with wormers. What's left?

Thanks Caroline, you've explained a lot, I see your point about dysplasia. I will take a look at the website you mention. Regarding parasites, I live in Ecuador so meat may not be as well controlled as in the UK, however, I get the meat from a good place and its all human grade, I'm not actually using pork which is probably the most risky. Anyway I think the benefits probably outweigh the risks.

Caroline. I do feed a BARF diet but do not believe your statement about freezing eradicating salmonella is accurate. In the article below a population of salmonella survived freezing at -75C, standard lab freezers are -20C and I believe home freezers are typically warmer. Certainly keeping food frozen and thawing just prior to feeding will slow the growth of existing bacteria greatly Article http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=376605 Your statement that salmonella is closely monitored in the states is accurate, but approximately 4% of chicken sold in the market is still infected. I am not so concerned that a healhty dog will become infected as their stomachs are much more acidic than ours and should handily dispatch the bacteria, but anyone feeding a lot of raw chicken does need to take care with food hygeine for their own safety and realize the feces left by their dogs may still have viable bacteria which *could* post a threat to their children if proper hygeine is not excercised.

Caroline I would also be concerned about the meat:bone ratio -- if you dog is only getting meat and eggs with shells there may not be enough calcium and other minerals in the diet. As I understand the ratio of meat:bone in chicken leg quarters is pretty close to ideal-though higher than in the original Billinghurst info -- my pup was quite able to dispatch them at that age and I gladly did it as the necks were going down whole and I wanted her to chew --- of course all the substances listed before -- offal, heart, green tripe, etc are important to provide balance.

Thanks Nancy, you are right, freezing at -10oC (average home fridge temp) does not eradicate but slows down growth. Healthy mammals can deal with a certain level of salmonella. Its when the organism is weak that salmonella can cause disasters. I add cider vinegar to the meal and feed chicken wings. I was concerned about bigger ones. After all I was brought u on: "Never give your dog chicken or pork nones!!! He'll die" and most vets still promote this. Thanks for the info.

I have a friend who has had all her dogs on the BARF diet for years and is very pleased with it. However I would like to warn users of this diet to be careful. Recently one of her dogs died from over eating. She usually throws ample enough Deer meat out so her dogs don't fight over the meat. One of her young dogs ate and ate, barely chewing the bones. Over night he must have started trying to vomit but couldn't. By the morning he was a mess and she rushed him to the vet thinking he was bloating. They couldn't even read the X-ray because there was SO much food in his stomach, he looked like he was pregnant. To make a long story short. He didn't bloat, his stomach was punctured by the bones and stomach debris was floating in his gut.

I never feed my dogs together. I always feed them in their crates, that way i know how much each dog is getting and that they are getting the correct amount. Also I don't have the fighting issue the ants getting into the food or the over eating. Heather

I have a couple more questions. Caroline, you say you feed egg yoke and shell - is there a particular reason for not giving the white? I have been giving whole raw eggs whisked with the raw veg, but I think I have read somewhere else not to give whites, and other people I know swear that eggs should always be cooked becasue they can't be assimilated raw ??? The other thing, please excuse my ignorance (I am vegetarian!!) but what is green tripe as opposed to the normal (Whitish?) stuff? Thanks.