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by Weezy on 01 March 2014 - 06:03
The one on the 2nd picture of the Faded black/tan is really faded-washed out color. I saw an old "Champion" at the AKC dog show a year ago looked just like that color. Always thought they wanted nice rich colors in the Show ring.
by EuroShepherd on 01 March 2014 - 07:03
Sometimes the color you *think* you see is really how you've trained your eye to interpret a color. Plenty of folks have not trained themselves how to see a color/pattern or have trained themselves incorrectly.
Consider that the "color" of a German Shepherd Dog that you visually see is broken down into 3 major categories.
Tan Pigment Intensity: this is the "tan" part of the color, it is controlled by genes that determine it's richness/intensity. very low intensity will show as cream or silver (which is considered poor pigment in the breed standard.) Medium intensity will vary from light tan to rich golden color and rich pigment intensity will be red.
Black Pigment Intensity: this is a poly-genetic feature, some of these genes can cause the black pigment to fade away and be replaced by the tan pigment as the dog ages.... it is this set of genes that cause many people to mistake a faded black/tan dog to be a sable. (I think that the melanistic gene is connected with this category?)
Patterns: the breed has 4 primary patterns: solid, sable, bi-color and saddleback (also commonly referred to as black/tan or black/red.) these patterns are located on different loci, so it is possible for a sable to also be a saddleback (referred to as patterned sable) or bi-color.
Bi-color is truly a separate genetic pattern from saddleback and it is identifiable by pencil-marks on toes and tar heels.
These colors and patterns are determined by genes that each follow it's own strict set of rules. The only correct way to identify a dog's color/pattern is by what it's phenotype genes are, not by what one thinks they may see.
(please note: I know I didn't include the masking genes, dilute gene and other genes that are known to affect the color of a GSD... just listing the major ones for standard-accepted color.)
Consider that the "color" of a German Shepherd Dog that you visually see is broken down into 3 major categories.
Tan Pigment Intensity: this is the "tan" part of the color, it is controlled by genes that determine it's richness/intensity. very low intensity will show as cream or silver (which is considered poor pigment in the breed standard.) Medium intensity will vary from light tan to rich golden color and rich pigment intensity will be red.
Black Pigment Intensity: this is a poly-genetic feature, some of these genes can cause the black pigment to fade away and be replaced by the tan pigment as the dog ages.... it is this set of genes that cause many people to mistake a faded black/tan dog to be a sable. (I think that the melanistic gene is connected with this category?)
Patterns: the breed has 4 primary patterns: solid, sable, bi-color and saddleback (also commonly referred to as black/tan or black/red.) these patterns are located on different loci, so it is possible for a sable to also be a saddleback (referred to as patterned sable) or bi-color.
Bi-color is truly a separate genetic pattern from saddleback and it is identifiable by pencil-marks on toes and tar heels.
These colors and patterns are determined by genes that each follow it's own strict set of rules. The only correct way to identify a dog's color/pattern is by what it's phenotype genes are, not by what one thinks they may see.
(please note: I know I didn't include the masking genes, dilute gene and other genes that are known to affect the color of a GSD... just listing the major ones for standard-accepted color.)
by northwoodsGSD on 01 March 2014 - 17:03
EuroShep,
Very nicely explained
Very nicely explained
by beetree on 01 March 2014 - 18:03
@Educanine: What is the "short hand" gene for bi-color pattern? I really have not heard of this.
Bi-color is truly a separate genetic pattern from saddleback and it is identifiable by pencil-marks on toes and tar heels.
by susie on 01 March 2014 - 18:03
Only out of curiosity - why do you create color charts?
There is a standard -
There is a standard -
- Black and tan
- Sable
- Black
by Hutchins on 02 March 2014 - 00:03
eurosport. Very well explained. by beetree on 02 March 2014 - 02:03
I am sorry Educanine, I said your name when I meant EuroShepherd.
by EduCanine on 02 March 2014 - 05:03
Beetree- no worries
by EuroShepherd on 02 March 2014 - 05:03
Beetree, this link will help http://www.ddrlegends.com/gsdcolor.html this chart only shows the basic genetics of the 4 patterns of the GSD (solid, sable, saddleback, bi-color) now just imagine adding the color pigment genes, black pigment genes (those for intensity, those for mask (liver) and dilute (blue) those for fading, those for melanistic.... all on different loci!) the white masking gene, white spotting genes, and so forth... not to mention how hormones, diet, weather, etc. impact the color of a dog (which have it's roots in the dog's genes because they determine how they react or don't react to it's environment.) all these thousands of wonderful individual genes coming together in countless combinations!
I should note, when I said that bi-colors are identifiable by pencil marks on toes and tar heels... this is in adult dogs! puppies can be tricky as a melanistic saddleback pup will have pencil marks and tar heels too, this goes away as they reach adulthood though.
Susie, we care because we choose to care, some of us are fascinated by the genetics that bring us the incredible variation of colors that we see amongst the GSD breed. It is a lot of fun to backtrack those genes and polygenes, how they interact with each other to create the mural of our dogs' coats. It is unseemly to be negative towards those who simply want to explore the genetics of colors and patterns.
I should note, when I said that bi-colors are identifiable by pencil marks on toes and tar heels... this is in adult dogs! puppies can be tricky as a melanistic saddleback pup will have pencil marks and tar heels too, this goes away as they reach adulthood though.
Susie, we care because we choose to care, some of us are fascinated by the genetics that bring us the incredible variation of colors that we see amongst the GSD breed. It is a lot of fun to backtrack those genes and polygenes, how they interact with each other to create the mural of our dogs' coats. It is unseemly to be negative towards those who simply want to explore the genetics of colors and patterns.
by susie on 02 March 2014 - 09:03
" It is unseemly to be negative towards those who simply want to explore the genetics of colors and patterns. "
You are right, I simply never cared about color patterns
You are right, I simply never cared about color patterns
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