Main > OFA and PennHip .. A franchise opportunity for veterinarians with price fixing (65 replies)

by bubbabooboo on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

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The policy among OFA vets in my area is sedate or they won't do the OFA.  I am wrong about the OFA sedation issue if there is no written policy from the OFA requiring sedation but that is the way it seems to work in this immediate area. Perhaps they had a meeting and decided for sedation when they decided what price they would all charge.  All the vets in my area require sedation and I am not willing to pretend sedation can or will not harm my dog's health.  I neither like or dislike Fred Lanting but I feel the science of genetics has passed Fred Lanting by and he is still doing what he has done in the past even though the science has progressed beyond that.  Scientists who live too long risk having their favorite theories proven wrong in their lifetime.

by hexe on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

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Oh, so then you were just being inflammatory when you alleged that OFA was now requiring all dogs be sedated. 

That'll do.

by Blitzen on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

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Think what you want, Bubba, you are wrong about sedation and hip and elbow xrays. 

Fred Lanting has forgotten more about this breed than you will ever know.

by bubbabooboo on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

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Sedation adds to the cost for the owner and the danger to the animal.  It also adds to the profits of the veterinarian and makes the throughput of the "animal hospital" faster.  If suggesting that veterinarians will do what is best for their own profits and speed of operation is making anyone inflamed as Hexe suggested then I am guilty as charged.  Personally I do not want my animals sedated unless I am with them as I have seen them stop breathing without supervision by the vet staff and know people who's dog has been damaged by sedation and just like humans the more an animal is sedated the higher the risks on each subsequent sedation.   I hope Fred Lanting didn't forget the important stuff that I will never know .. I'm pretty sure Fred Lanting remembers all of the good stuff about Fred and his theories but is fuzzy on the things not so flattering.

by Blitzen on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

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Do you have a website, Bubba?

by hexe on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

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No, bubbabickyboo, you didn't SUGGEST anything.

You flat out, blatently STATED that OFA now REQUIRED dogs be sedated for radiographs.

I was being polite and attributing that statement to an attempt on your part to create a furor you could participate in, which you seem to require on a regular basis; was I mistaken, then, and was your statement actually just a common garden-variety lie you decided to throw out there?

by bubbabooboo on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

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Ask your bud Fred Lanting and you and he can criticize my web site when you run out of legitimate arguments.  Gotta go feed and water my dogs .. the thing the hips are connected to.  I am leaving it for those who have had OFA hips and elbows done in the last year or less to decide what the "normal" cost that is charged is and whether sedation is optional or required if you want to get the OFA certificate.  In my area the cost is $350-$400 with sedation and sedation is required.  

by hexe on 28 November 2013 - 16:11

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booboo, if your vet doesn't want to wrestle with your dogs in an attempt to get them positioned correctly, and therefore requires them to be sedated for hip films, that is a completely different premise than OFA requiring sedation.

by Blitzen on 28 November 2013 - 16:11

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Do you xray your dogs hips and elbows, Bubba? Are they certified by any organization? I did find your website, you listed it here. Your dogs look nice.

by Sunsilver on 28 November 2013 - 18:11

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Fred Lanting has forgotten more about this breed than you will ever know.

Thumbs Up

Amen, Blitzen! And since he is still actively involved in showing, breeding AND judging, I am sure he keeps current with other developments such as x-rays and genetics.

http://www.fredlanting.org/

by fawndallas on 28 November 2013 - 19:11

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Wow.  The vet that did Cirberus prelims with sedation, hips and elbows $60.  For OFA certification with sedation, he quoted me $185.  To tell the truth, not sure what the difference would be, but still a better price.  You are welcome to come to Texas.  I will get you set up with him.

by SummertimeGSD on 28 November 2013 - 20:11

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I just had hips, elbows, and OFA submission done last week by a board certified veterinary specialist outside of Chicago for $235.00, no sedation was used.  They use digital so they add the submission fee into their price and send it in.  A few years ago I spent nearly $800 elsewhere, had my dog sedated and had some of the worst quality x-rays I've seen.

Some states require that nobody is allowed in the room while taking an x-ray which ends up meaning that animals must be sedated for x-rays, it has nothing to do with what the vets want to do, that is the state laws regarding x-ray exposure.

I've worked as a veterinary technician for 15 years, the prices that vets charge has nothing to do with OFA or PennHip.  Most clinics base their prices on what other clinics in the area are charging, yes, they will have you call other offices from you cell phones and price shop.  Understandably PennHip might cost a bit more because the staff must be trained and certified in order to take those x-rays.  Also, be aware that many offices are not qualified to take good quality x-rays for OFA.  If all of the employees/technicians there are trainined "on-the-job" they may not have the knowledge or skills to take a good x-ray, and a vast majority of vets don't even know how to work the x-ray machine in their clinic since the technicians take all of the x-rays.

by Blitzen on 29 November 2013 - 08:11

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The OFA's Hip Radiograph Procedures

General Overview

Radiographs submitted to the OFA should follow the American Veterinary Medical Association recommendations for positioning. This view is accepted world wide for detection and assessment of hip joint irregularities and secondary arthritic hip joint changes. To obtain this view, the animal must be placed on its back in dorsal recumbency with the rear limbs extended and parallel to each other. The knees (stifles) are rotated internally and the pelvis is symmetric. Chemical restraint (anesthesia) to the point of relaxation is recommended. For elbows, the animal is placed on its side and the respective elbow is placed in an extreme flexed position.

The radiograph film must be permanently identified with the animal's registration number or name, date the radiograph was taken, and the veterinarian's name or hospital name. If this required information is illegible or missing, the OFA cannot accept the film for registration purposes. The owner should complete and sign the OFA application. It is important to record on the OFA application the animal's tattoo or microchip number in order for the OFA to submit results to the AKC. Sire and dam information should also be present.

Radiography of pregnant or estrus females should be avoided due to possible increased joint laxity (subluxation) from hormonal variations.OFA recommends radiographs be taken one month after weaning pups and one month before or after a heat cycle. Physical inactivity because of illness, weather, or the owner's management practices may also result in some degree of joint laxity. The OFA recommends evaluation when the dog is in good physical condition.

Chemical restraint (anesthesia) is not required by OFA but chemical restraint to the point of muscle relaxation is recommended. With chemical restraint optimum patient positioning is easier with minimal repeat radiographs (less radiation exposure) and a truer representation of the hip status is obtained.

For large and giant breed dogs, 14" x 17" film size is recommended. Small film sizes can be used for smaller breeds if the area between the sacrum and the stifles can be included.

If a copy is necessary ask your veterinarian to insert 2 films in the cassette prior to making the exposure. This will require about a 15% increase in the kVp to make an exact duplicate of the radiograph sent to OFA. Films may be returned if a $5.00 fee and request for return are both included at time of submission.

 

by gsdstudent on 29 November 2013 - 08:11

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we can all hang together, or we will all be hung separately. who said it? Can you imagine being a private practicing vet and having a private individual breeder coming into your practice and telling you what to charge? A lobby from an informed and engaged group [ strong national club] explaining to the vet population, maybe a the school level,  will go further than this tit for tat forum. The SV has a list of vets who are ''ok'' to '' do'' their A Stamp program. 

by vonissk on 29 November 2013 - 09:11

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The last OFA H/E I had done was 206. The lasy xrays I had done for a look see was 45 with my discount and I had to help cause they were busy. When I had those OFAs done they were with sedation. I would only do the sedation ones. We did DeJa last summer with none for the look see and damn she was a handful--she did not like being on her back but we managed to get a good shot and see what we wanted. And I agree with Blitzen, the OFA has nothing to do with prices and fees your vet charges you. The previous OFAs I had done with another vet were over 300...............I think about 340. So how can my vet do it so cheap and the people on the hill so much, less than 8 miles away? I don't know...............

by joanro on 29 November 2013 - 10:11

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The ones on the hill have higher mortgage payments?

by vonissk on 29 November 2013 - 12:11

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Exactly Joan--young guy fresh out of vet school set up a big facility for large and small animals. He's high and rude and shit at dogs--I had a Sara , who was the small animal vet at the time do my OFA's and it worked out great. But he sucks.

by bubbabooboo on 29 November 2013 - 15:11

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There was a time when doctors owned hospitals but now the hospitals own the doctors.  Vet facilities and especially the small animal "vet hospitals" as they like to sell themselves are increasingly corporate owned and they can price fix with ease as fewer people need to meet to "price fix" or set the pricing for services or products that all charge.  Price fixing in large corporations and international corporations is a fact and they get caught but infrequently.  The fines are large when they are caught but no one goes to prison and the huge profits from pricing higher for all in the few large organizations needed to set higher pricing more than offsets the fines.  The smaller competitors generally go along and keep their mouths shut because they operate on thinner margins than the multinationals and should the worst (a price war) happen they are generally early casualties.  So the fact that in my area of central North Carolina most veterinarians charge the same price for OFA hips and elbows does not come as a surprise since it is of benefit to all of them to charge a higher price and maintain it.  Others have given examples of lower prices for the same OFA services in other areas.  Perhaps the union is not as strong in other areas as in this area of NC where we are swamped with NCSU vet school grads whom I find to be both a lot less talented and a lot less honest than the arrogant and self serving NCSU vet school system sells them to be.  Veterinarians run a business for themselves and/or for the corporation they work for and they have no more problem with overcharging you or selling you something you don't need than the attendant at the self serve gas station has with selling you cigarettes, beer, or a lottery ticket.  

by gsdstudent on 29 November 2013 - 15:11

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price fixing!! i should call William Holder! no,no,  he has that Ben G thingy. The IRS! no they got that tea party thingy, Obama! no hes got that ACA mess. What I can do is work with my vet, help him or her  to understand why I do what I do with my GSDs and how good xrays are part of that whole breed survey thingy. He treats me right, and low and behold he gets the reward when my pups come to him for shots, and worm med, and checkups. What goes around comes around, but he does drive a better vehicle than I do, that bastard!

by Blitzen on 29 November 2013 - 18:11

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Try using a vet in NYC for hip xrays.

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