German Shepherd Dog > OFA Fair X-Ray (34 replies)

by agilegsds on 05 April 2013 - 20:04

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This is my female, taken and submitted in December, the day after she turned 24 months.  I'm hoping to get opinions about why she same back OFA Fair.  Is it because the sockets are a little shallow?  She's not going to be bred, so I guess I shouldn't be concerned that it's Fair since she passed.  Thanks in advance!

by Blitzen on 05 April 2013 - 20:04

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That would be my guess too, the sockets could be deeper and there is a little thickening of the necks on both sides.

by CMills on 05 April 2013 - 21:04

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Left hip isn't very well seated, JMO

by agilegsds on 05 April 2013 - 22:04

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Thanks for the responses.  Yes, someone had mentioned the left hip before.  And on her prelims the left looked better seated than the right.

by SitasMom on 05 April 2013 - 22:04

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there are slight changes.......slight flattening and a sharp edge on the femoral head, and no DJD.
The changes are not enough to effect the dog during it's life, but they are changes.
I wouldnt worry about it and if you wish to breed, find a dog with "good" or "excellent" hips.

by BlackthornGSD on 05 April 2013 - 22:04

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Those are nice looking hips, by and large--I would not be at all concerned with those hips. Yes, they could be deeper and I agree that the necks are bit thick (which is not, in itself, a problem--but it can be a symptom of a problem). On another day, they might have gotten good, but I think the "Fair" rating is not irrational. Kudos to your vet for such a nice, straight, well-positioned xray.

Christine

by agilegsds on 05 April 2013 - 22:04

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Thanks for the illustration.  Very educational.  I should mention that her sire and dam are both 'a' normal.  But I have noticed several half-siblings (sire) are fast normal and a full sibling from a previous litter is fast normal too.

by 1020ma on 05 April 2013 - 23:04

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Nice illustration sitasmom, I agree with what you pointed out. But the "holes" I'm the pelvic bone are different sizes as well, whic may have affected the rating. Fair isn't bad so don't worry about it.

 

by ziegenfarm on 06 April 2013 - 02:04

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i agree with the others in that you have little cause for concern.  i'm sure you're a bit disappointed
in the rating, however, this dog should be able to do just about anything.  if you are doing dogsport,
you might want to limit the jumping, but there is no physical reason why this dog couldn't be titled.
best wishes to you & the dog.  :)
pjp

by Blitzen on 06 April 2013 - 09:04

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Once again........the "flat spot" in that area of the femural head of any dog is normal - it is known as the acetabular notch where the ligament attaches the head to the socket. Without that notch and and its corresponding ligament, there would be nothing to hold the hip in the socket. Hans posted a very nice diagram of this a few months ago. If he's reading this, maybe he can post it here.

by Ramage on 06 April 2013 - 11:04

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I agree that the flat spot is normal. I also agree with Blackthorn and think they could have gone GOOD on another day.

by Prager on 06 April 2013 - 12:04

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Actually what probably got you lower evaluation ( besides some other minor things) is the top of the ball of the femur.  The top part on the femur which is out of the socket and progresses to the neck of the femur. It needs to be more convex-more ball like,... but it is almost flat.  Top of the femoral head should be just about as round as the bottom of it. 
Thi indentations in the middle of the femoral head are quite normal that is where the ligaments are attached. It is called Fovea capitis = Pit in the head:

by Prager on 06 April 2013 - 12:04

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OFA Quote: "The hip grades of Excellent, Good and Fair are within normal limits and are given OFA numbers."
But 
When I breed I am trying to have as little as possible OFA fair type hips in my dogs. I am trying to push the statistical bell curve to the excellent site but breeding as much as possible of OFA God and Excellent types. 
Also do not forget to look at the literates of the parents and ancestors of the dog in questions and what these dogs produced in their progeny. If there are too many fair and borderlines or worse I would stay away from it. If there are a loft of excellent and goods then I would breed it. 
But do not get only absorbed by hips. There is all big world out there  of other qualities. Breeding is a compromise. Anal retentive perfectionist will not make it as a breeder. 

by bubbabooboo on 06 April 2013 - 12:04

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In the SV system and with an X-ray taken earlier at 12 months of age the hips would be Normal .. I wouldn't worry about those hips.  People in the USA import dogs from Germany with Normal hips every day that are no better or probably worse than your dog's hips.  OFA Fair is equivalent to SV Normal in many, many cases.  Fast Normal at 12 months in the SV system could better be called "will be worse at 24 months".

by Blitzen on 06 April 2013 - 12:04

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Personally I don't put a lot of emphasis on OFA ratings anymore. I had 2 dogs fail with milds that got goods with  better xrays taken 2 months later. (Litter mates, both xrays read the same day and rejected the same day by OFA; both xraying vets said - no way). One of my females got an A1 at 24 months and an OFA borderline with a copy of the same xray. 6 months later she was OFA rated as good. I've seen more than one fair get a good and even an excellent with a different xray.  I used a fair male with a good dam, 7 puppies, 3 goods, 4 excellents. I'm not convinced the SV does a much  better job plus one only gets the benefit of one reader and they don't allow a resubmission of an xray to try for a better rating. SV's evaluation is final - no challenges allowed.

IMO sibling, parent, and grandparent status and production history is far more important in the long run than OFA and SV ratings. I'm glad I don't breed dogs anymore.

by Rik on 06 April 2013 - 13:04

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there are so many variables that it would be impossible to discuss them all. Is a dog "fair" from a litter that none others passed or "fair" from a litter of excellent and good.  And what are the parents and grandparents. Fair is a consensus among specialists that there is no sign of HD @ 2 yrs. or later. If I had an above average breeding prospect that was rated fair, I would not hesitate at all in breeding.

by agilegsds on 08 April 2013 - 14:04

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Thank you everyone for all of the responses.  I do see the difference in the shape of the top of the ball of the femur.  This has been very informative!

by LadyFrost on 08 April 2013 - 15:04

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can someone post excellent hips? with official rating...

by Prager on 12 April 2013 - 20:04

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 Blitzen:Personally I don't put a lot of emphasis on OFA ratings anymore.
I remember when I said just about the same as Blitzen here in a thread some time ago and I was the worst villain under the sun.  Basically I said that it is more important to post xray here on pedigrees gallery of  PDB then their evaluation by some registry.  I have also said that people who can not read those posted x rays should not breed dogs  or they should get them read by someone who knows how to do it and they are trust worthy. SV and OFA readings are good point of reference but not a panacea. It is confirmation tool for me. 


Excellent hips according to OFA:
Excellent Hips
Prager Hans 

by Prager on 12 April 2013 - 20:04

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As far as the pictures go, look at the upper part of the femoral neck on the example of OFA Excellent and you will see concave  shape between the neck and ball of the femur. Where on the op 's picture you can see convex shape. That is one of the reasons those hips are downgraded. It is also called the thickening of the neck. 

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