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German Shepherd Dog > Czech GSD's with bad hips (532 replies)

by Aadilah07 on 19 November 2012 - 13:11

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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:33 pm

Just a word of caution:

I know 2 people that have bought pups from this "world famous" kennel last year and....

both these dogs have terrible hips. They are from different litters and no common parents in the pedigrees.

It was shocking news to me and I just thought i'd warn people out there to be very careful.

The dogs were born in Czech Republic and exported when they were young pups...

by cage on 19 November 2012 - 14:11

Posts: 467
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Bad hips happens in all the lines,in every kennel.It is a polygenic trait,despite many generations being x-rayed,despite excluding animals with bad hips/elbows from breeding,there are still dogs born with it.However,thanks to HD and ED testing,the number of dogs with this problem has decreased.

by Jenni78 on 19 November 2012 - 15:11

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Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 03:24 pm
2 dogs out of the huge number they export is actually unusually good odds. 

by Gusmanda on 19 November 2012 - 15:11

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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 06:34 pm
Someone joining PDB just to post a non-specific complaint sounds to me like a cheap-shot.

by MichaelCox on 19 November 2012 - 15:11

Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 07:26 pm
"2 dogs out of the huge number they export is actually unusually good odds."

Yes, unless you are the one getting the two. In this case the odds weren't so good...

If her/his statment is true.

by Jenni78 on 19 November 2012 - 15:11

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Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 03:24 pm
I'm sure there are more than two. Statistically, there have to be in this breed and Jirkova dvora exports a TON of dogs. 

If I got two from them with bad hips, I'd say it wasn't my lucky day;-)  

by GSDPACK on 19 November 2012 - 16:11

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Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:06 pm

It is in the breed. it will happen and I know of plenty z Jirkova Dvora dogs that have clear hips at the age of 7 and I know some that don't. Breeding is not as simple as some make it sound. It is a hard core "game" of good and bad line ups and with experience, time and dedication one can learn how to breed away. But dogs are not manufactured in a factory, they are a product of nature. So Mother Nature is the strongest aspect of the things and I don;t care how much a breeder knows. As it happens breeding is not as easy as some make it sound...or believe it is or claim it is... it is a difficult task that should be done only by some. Jirkova Dvora is one of them despite the fact that some breeding/individuals will not work out.

by ziegenfarm on 19 November 2012 - 16:11

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Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 04:05 pm
in view of what i have seen lately, i am reluctant to write off any dog as dysplastic based on one set of xrays alone.
i am finding that there is far more problem with vets than there is with dogs' hips.  for someone to come on this
board simply stating that so&so had bad hips, doesn't mean squat to me.  i'm finding that far too many vets
can't position dogs correctly, can't read xrays properly and advise clients in a way that doesnot benefit anyone
but the vet in a financial way.  

by joanro on 19 November 2012 - 16:11

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I have a Jirkova dvora female, and she has OFA GOOD HIPS and NORMAL ELBOWS.

by joanro on 19 November 2012 - 16:11

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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 03:46 pm
Ziegenfarm, spot on !!

by joanro on 19 November 2012 - 16:11

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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 03:46 pm
MC, it wasn't one person getting two dogs, but, according to the OP's claim, two people getting one each. And, yes, it isn't good for the person who receives the bad report.

by Hundmutter on 19 November 2012 - 17:11

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Thumbs Up Thumbs Upziegenfarm.

by kitkat3478 on 20 November 2012 - 01:11

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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:16 am
I recently had a conversation with a breeder that stated his vet told him,"give me a dog with shit for hips, and I will do like the chiropractor for two weeks, and position that dog as many times as it takes, to get a passing score"
Look at that poor dog whose femur was an inch shorter than the other on that recent thread.
If that person went by that vets report that poor dog would be deep shit.

by BlackthornGSD on 20 November 2012 - 01:11

Posts: 1064
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 08:57 pm

give me a dog with shit for hips, and I will do like the chiropractor for two weeks, and position that dog as many times as it takes, to get a passing score"

That's why adult xrays are important--you can't hide the severe remodeling and calcification when a dog has truly bad HD. It's the borderline cases that are harder to call.

by kitkat3478 on 20 November 2012 - 02:11

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Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 11:16 am
I was trying to give the OP the sorry news that more dogs than just 2 of the Jirkova dvora dogs possibly have HD "somewhere thru the lines".
I just don't get why someone would come on and make a statement like the OP has.

by vk4gsd on 20 November 2012 - 03:11

Posts: 3191
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:42 am
possibly the OP is emotional and upset that the dog he has bonded to is a cripple or soon to be one - i would be a basket case. true it's nature and good breeders can act to minimise it, the only thing that can be done for sure is breeders and buyers should have a provision for this in the contract knowing that it might well happen anytime in any line. if its happening more than rarely the breeders ethics can questioned.

by Bhaugh on 20 November 2012 - 05:11

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Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 06:03 pm
Why defend kennels when dogs produce bad hips or elbows. Yes it does happen but post the dogs so when someone reads a post can make an INFORMED DECISION for themselves. Yes this particular kennel imports alot of dogs but when is that OK for a situation such as this or any other dog who has a genetic condition. For me its never ok.

I find it sad really that for some reason of late, its defended because of who the person is. Yeah everyone in some point of their breeding career will produce a bad hip, elbow or other. What makes a breeder worth their weight in gold is stepping up and doing the right thing.

Had someone from the board not stepped up and informed me on Cash, I would have probably bought the dog, because just like this situation it was kept a secret and I almost bought another genetically unsound dog. Since when is keeping genetic problems a secret ok for the breed or for the people who spend their hard earned money on an unsound dog?


by aaykay on 20 November 2012 - 07:11

Posts: 391
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:46 am
All I see in this thread is a first-time poster (with a single post to his/her name and has not even come back to comment after the first post) has trashed a respected breeder, with no evidence or any other substantiation.  She/he has named the breeder and accused them of 2 cases of bad hips.  IMHO, let us see the beef or some further details before commenting further !

PS:  I am not saying that bad hips don't come from Jinopo, considering the huge worldwide business they do and also considering that a percentage of the GSDs will get bad hips regardless of how well the breeding matches are done, but I am not a fan of people trashing a respectable business by actually naming them on a public forum, with zero details or any further substantiation.

by hexe on 20 November 2012 - 07:11

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Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2003 02:31 am
I agree, Bhaugh, that secrecy is a very bad thing for the breed as a whole, and that secrecy is driven entirely by $$$$$$..

That said, I also agree with those who have responded by pointing out that statistically, two bad sets of hips out of thousands would not be of any real significance.  Of course, the number of bad hips out of the kennel mentioned is surely greater than just two, as is the case with any breeding operation that's pushing out a similar tidal wave of litters.  It's hardly worth hopping on here to make the original post that opened this thread. 

I mean, it's akin to "In other earth-shattering news, water is wet." 

Perhaps this poster and allenf can get together, and between them they'll name all of the dogs and bitches which have produced a dysplastic set of hips and/or elbows, and together they can rid the breed of the problems.

Would that it were only that easy.  I know Jenni's offered to hold a pet rock for me, but I've had one of those before, and I found it uncomfortable when they slept on the bed with me...

by allanf on 20 November 2012 - 09:11

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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2012 03:30 pm
Hi aaykay. Nope! Two thumbs down this time. Thumbs DownThumbs Down  

aaykay and hexe (the famous "online vet") are far too persistent and quick in telling people to ignore the warnings. Birds of a feather. Neither of these members have the intelligence nor the will to investigate any claims.

Poor old joanro (owner of Von Ron German Shepherds Working Dogs for Family, Work, and ...) sees every warning as a personal attack because of her experiences as a breeder. Just the mention of heritable disease, irresponsible breeding, disputed contracts, etc, and up come the defences.

Barb, How's that for delivery? :)

I don't know anything about this kennel - I only know about aaykay, hexe and joanro, and that wherever they are contributing, there is always something fishy - but a quick google for the terms "Jirkova dvora" and "noch zugelassen" turns up, among other things:

EXCELLENT,5JY1/P Urf z Jirkova dvora (Hip: SV: HD a-noch zuglassen (a3))

with 11 progeny, although a few of those may in fact be "dummies", including some progeny by the Dams:

Baccarra der Krieg Hund (Hip: HD-OFA: Good)

Gama z Jirkova dvora (Hip: FCI: a 1/2)

I assume that anyone with a genuine interest in this kennel will search the appropriate databases, and confirm the health status of any dogs in which they might have an interest.

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