German Shepherd Dog > Adaquan injections (33 replies)
by FM58 on 18 November 2012 - 15:48
|Is there any GSD owners who have given their dogs adaquan injections? My 4 yr old has mild unilateral HD been on rimydal, tramadol and a liquid glucosamine. I have not seen much if any improvement. I am switching to cosequin ds capsules to sprinkle on her raw diet. I think we need to take her for the injections. It is killing me seeing her in pain, I was wondering if anyone has had good luck with the injections? Thanks in advance for any and all help.|
by Darcy on 18 November 2012 - 16:34
|I did adequan injections and never knew if they were working until I stopped.... They were helping a lot. I would definitely use them again. |
by jaggirl47 on 18 November 2012 - 16:58
|I did 2 courses of Adequan injections on my old man. He had bilateral HD but was turned down for hip replacement surgery due to other health issues. The Adequan is the reasonhis quality of life was greatly improved over his last couple of years. I am so glad I did it for him. He was almost like his old self.|
by FM58 on 18 November 2012 - 17:07
|Thanks to both for 2 possitive replies. I was thinking about calling the vet and get her scheduled for the loading dose. Did you guys stop the Tramadol and other pain meds? Or were you not using any? Maybe as needed......what about glucosamine? I guess it can't hurt along with the injections.|
by jaggirl47 on 18 November 2012 - 17:13
|Mine did not get any pain meds. His liver values were already too bad. We just did the Adequan and I supplimented him with triple dosage of Springtime Longevity.|
Have you considered a hip replacement? I know they are expensive but that is an awfully young dog.
by FM58 on 18 November 2012 - 17:20
|I have thought about replacement surgery, but yes the cost is a concern at this time. I have also read about stem cell?????? Not too sure what the effectiveness is on that though. Sorry to hear your guy could not go thru with the surgery.|
by hexe on 18 November 2012 - 18:42
|Adequan injections will likely help, but frankly, if your dog is already on Rimadyl and tramadol and you don't feel THEY are doing anything, I can assure you that stopping them and switching over to Cosequin DS & Adequan injections alone will NOT be sufficient to keep your dog comfortable...you will need to continue the RImadyl and tramadol as well. |
Additionally, it is extremely unusual for a dog with *MILD, UNILATERAL* HD to have such severe pain as to require NSAIDs [the Rimadyl] PLUS tramadol at such a young age--are you sure there isn't something else going on, such as lumbar disc compression or herniation, or cauda equina syndrome? If this were my dog, I would be aggressively seeking more information as to why the dog is in so much pain, because one mildly bad hip should not cause such in a 4 year old dog. In cases of cauda equina syndrome, acupuncture is often quite helpful in addition to traditional medication support.
One final consideration: if your dog's going to need to be on Rimadyl and/or tramadol for anything other than a short-term treatment, you should look into also giving milk thistle extract as a protectant for the liver; both of these drugs can place a serious burden on the liver, and the milk thistle extract aids the organ in repairing itself.
by Darcy on 18 November 2012 - 19:54
|Hexe made excellent points about checking the spine. AND I would get xrays of the spine done and get multiple reads on them. It took several "experts" years to see my girls lumbo sacral issues. Well after she was symptomatic and could not work. I do give cosequin to my dogs and my male that got the adequan was on multiple pain meds and metacam that did nothing for him. those were for his spinal issues.|
If it is just one hip, I have seen a working dog do really well with an FHO and that is much less expensive than the replacement.
by FM58 on 18 November 2012 - 20:31
|They did x-ray her spine when this all first started and it according to the vet and an x-ray specialist who read the films said that the spine looked okay. Hexe you make a good point for as mild as the hd is she should not be limping and be in this much pain ( mostly when she first gets up from laying down ) I now wonder if I should save my money or go ahead with the injections.|
by benzi on 19 November 2012 - 00:48
Big fan of Adequan...Our eleven year old female has a broken/cracked," bridge" between vertebrae causing back spasms..did the loading dose for a month, then backed off to once a week, now keep her at one every two weeks. Saw a vast improvement within a month. She is also on 200mm of Gabapentin at night for her back. She has cartilage damage in an elbow, and seems to help that too. Our vet wrote a prescription and we fill it and give our own injections. Can be pricey going to vet for the loading dose. Just learned that after giving a it for a few months of IM it can go sub q...much easier. Definitely worth a try. Good luck.
by Spooks on 19 November 2012 - 08:50
|My female GSD is approaching 10 years old and was diagnosed with severe HD at 8 months old. The prognosis from my own vet and Liverpool SATH was that she'd be lucky to reach 6/7 years old before being totally crippled. Unfortunately she wasn't a suitable candidate for surgery such as TPLO or THR|
I have been to hell and back over the years trying out different meds/supplements for her, especially when she was diagnosed with an arthritic elbow 2 years ago. I have tried Cartrophen injections, acupuncture, Metacam, Gabapentin, Tramadol, Onsior - Glucosamine/Chondroitin, Green Lipped Mussel Extract, CLO, Yumove, Fish Oil Capsules. I noticed she got a little relief from acupuncture but none from the Cartrophen injections. I read somewhere that Adequan may have slightly better results but Cartrophen seems to be be very close in its effectiveness. I guess each dog will react differently.
My dog has been on Metacam for the past 6 years with no ill effects, she is checked regularly for any adverse effects. For the past year I have managed to find a happy level of meds and supplements for improving her life, which taking into account her age is fantastic. She has been on Metacam, 4 x Tramadol per day, 3 x Yumove and 3 x Fish Oil Caps and she is running round like a 2 year old. She limps on her off fore from her elbow and her gait with her hind legs is dreadful but there never has been an actual limp from them, but she is a happy dog and plays with my younger 2 year old dog and joins in the playtime with other dogs we meet up with daily, whereas before she would just mooch about.
I do limit her exercise as well and manage it conservatively, such as a good run for one or two days and the next day or so it will be a short lead walk round the village. I know lots of people as well as myself who highly recommend Yumove, it does take about 6 weeks to show any improvement if there is going to be any.
by momosgarage on 19 November 2012 - 18:17
|Before I begin, I agree with Darcy and hexe that you should get an additional vets opinion on the condition of your dogs spine, elbows, hips etc. I am currently using adequan on my 11 year old female who always had bad hips and elbows. However, it was never debilitating in her case and she was only really slow and stiff after sleeping over night or after taking a long nap; she just needed to get warmed up and would be good after. At her heaviest she was 80 lbs. Since she turned 8 years old, I have kept her at a very lean and very muscular weight of 65 lbs. She walks 4-5 total miles a day split into two, no trotting, no jogging, just long walks on hills and inclines. Both my Emergency vet and regular vet agreed that trimming her weight and the regular endurance excersise has helped a lot in keeping her mobile. |
I didn't give her adequan from day one, I statred with Grand Synergy HA for a year, the main ingredients are glucosamine, chondroitin, type-II collagen and MSM. Its not great in terms of quality control when compared to Cosequin, but it is better than over the counter stuff you get at Petco etc and is in a powder form. At first I gave her 2 teaspoon twice a day and toward the end of using it 1 teaspoons twice a day (loading dosage was 4 teapoons per 50 lbs for 4 weeks, with food). A lot of people with horses swear by it and I also feels its a good value, I did see improvement and decline if I missed giving it for a day, but still not the best option.
After a year of using the Grand Meadows product the vet had her start Cosequin DS, 1 pill in the morning and one at night (loading was 2 pills in the morning and 2 at night for 4 weeks, with food). I saw an improvement over the Grand Meadows product and similarly I saw decline if I did not give it to her for a day. In my opinion Cosequin Double Strenght (the one with the GSD picture on the label) is the best bang for the buck. Results are very noticeable and with trial and error the proper dosage can be determined at home (some dogs will need more then 2 pills a day, maybe even 6). Animal Health Options (AHO) make a superior glucosamine and type-II collagen pill, but it is VERY expensive and needs a vet to sign up to a contract in order to purchase it.
After 2 years of Grand Meadows and Cosequin, my female started the Adequan injections and stayed on the Cosequin DS. In my case I saw her begin to play with younger dogs again. She had never lost mobility up to this point, but she was certainly in no mood to romp or play with other dogs before geting adequan. After less than a year of being on Adequan she is back to playing, which she was never doing on the Grand Meadows HA or Cosequin DS alone. I would say it is working, BUT it has to be injected in the rear legs or near the problem area intramuscularly (loading is 4 weeks with 1 shot per week). I stress this detail, because one time my vet was out of town and the vet he had subbing for him gave her the shot subcutaneous in the shoulder. I was able to see the difference first hand. When Adequan was injected intramuscularly near her hips its effects lasted a little more than 3 weeks and she never showed signs of nausea. By the 4th week after the intramuscular shot it was usually obvious she needed to get her next shot (she gets the shot ever 4 weeks) and would slow down by the end of the 4th week until she got the shot. In contrast the subcutaneous shot made her throw up on the car ride home (which never happened with the intramuscular shot) and there was a big difference in her energy level and willingness to play mid way through the second week. Based on my anecdotal observations I would say Adequan MUST be given intramuscularly and should NEVER be given subcutaneously. I personally would leave any vet that insists on giving it subcutaneous, claiming the effect will be the same (thats what the sub vet said too!).
My vet was familiar with Adequan, Catrophen and Pentosan, but went straight to Adequan. These are all different products. Catrophen and Pentosan are primarily used for horses and is not effective for some dogs. Both Catrophen and Pentosan are cheaper than Adequan, so some vets will try these first before moving the dog onto Adequan. If Catrophen and Pentosan don't work, it has no bearing on whether Adequan will work or not. You simply have to try them all. But I would recommend going straight to Adequan because you would have to wait at leat 90 days to figure out if Catrophen or Pentosan are working. You'd be a minimum of 180 days out before you'd get to try Adequan. On a positive note, some dogs only need to go on Adequan temporarily or have a longer lasting effect reducing frequency of visits. But some dogs need a lot more of it (one every two weeks in some cases, with an initial loading period of 8 weeks, getting the shot once a week)
There also is ployglycan, legend, icon or Chondroprotec, but I have never heard of people using these for dogs, only horses. Also you can try a short term treatment using a bisphosphonate (similar to boniva or fosamax used for humans). Its given to horses and dogs through an IV and is done for about 6 months (not sure how many times a week). It helps to build up bones that have grinded away around damaged cartilage, but its hard on the liver, kidneys and pancreas, so should only be done with a dog who has ogans that can handle it short term.
by momosgarage on 19 November 2012 - 19:59
|To add to the above. I pay $48 and change for each shot and she has never been on pain meds.|
by FM58 on 20 November 2012 - 01:02
|Thanks so much for all the information. I called my vet today and he said they have it on hand and the loading dose for her is $375 and each injection after is $47.00 I thought that he might be a little high but I guess he is in the average range. I will let you all know how it goes. Thanks again for all the info and help with this difficult matter.|
by LynOD on 20 November 2012 - 16:59
|FM58 I tried Stem cell on my Gsd and it was ineffective. I too have been to many vets and evryone tells me something different. She has been diagnosed with spondylosis as well as HD at first it was said to unilateral HD then they said the other hip although better was also not great. I considered surgery however I have never got a clear answer as to where the pain is coming from her back or her hip. So she is on Rimadyl and Tramadol and will been long term I also supplement with Gluco and Chondroitin. @ Hexe I have tried the milk thistle on two of my dogs 1 while on Doxy for lymes and this dog to help preserve her liver but both dogs experienced vomiting which stopped when the milk thistle stopped. Is this a common side effect with the herbal?? Just curious. |
by momosgarage on 20 November 2012 - 18:09
|LynOD, what brand of Glucosamine and Chondroitin are you using? This is actually a very important detail that many do not consider. There was a great study done from the perspective of horse supplements and the findings basically said Nutramax (Cosequin) was one of the few brands that had true quality control of thier end product. If you haven't started using Cosequin or Dasaquin, I recommend that you do and be sure what is causing the poor results. As I said above Animal Health Options also has very good quality control on thier animal supplement products. As for the stem cell procedure, did you use medi-vet or vet-stem? The medi-vet method separates the stem cell at the vets office, vet stem uses a frozen by mail process. My vet doesn't recommend stem cell treatment, but it was his opinion that separating the stem cell on site would have a much better result. At one point I consulted a race horse vet on his experience with stem cells and he said it needs to be done with a few other treatments to have a drastic overall effect and also may need to be done multiple times for full effect. Also the stem cell process dogs get is not the same as the one horses are getting. The horse stem cell treatment offered by vet-stem uses bone-marrow stem cells, but the dog version gets it sample from fat cells. My vet says at best the fat stem cells will act as longer lasting lubricants in a way that is similar to Adequan, however unlike the bone-marrow stem cells they will never turn into anything that can heal existing damage. I don't know why they do this because a professor at UC Davis is using stem cells from dog bone marrow successfully to reduce the effects of DM. If dog stem cell treatments were done like race horses with bone-marrow, the results would be dramatic. Its almost like the fat cell stem cell treatment is a quick scam money generator for Vet-stem.|
After talking with horse vets that use the Tidren brand of bisphosphonate, I believe it could be a viable option for dog with HD and bad arthritis. However, online most people are talking about using it with cancer treatments for dogs, which is surprising to me becuase if you look up how bisphosphonates are used for horses it is ALWAYS used to help with lamness and arthritis. Why no one is talking about using it for dogs arthritis is beyond me:
Here is a dog article that briefly mentions using bisphosphonate to stabilize bone and managing pain, but then goes off into left field with a discussion about dog cancer:
My vet said that the bisphosphonate should be given by IV, however I have read that regional profusion repeated 3 times at 2 week intervals will work better and will also prevent the animal from feeling sick. Suppossedly, 3 doses administered directly to the site of the injury is better than 10 doses administered to the whole body systematicaly. Who knows though because this info all comes from horse people.
by LynOD on 20 November 2012 - 18:52
|Thank you for the above info will look into this with my vet. It was Vet Stem that her fat cells were sent to then injected and given IV. Interesting info I appreciate it. I also tried Adaquan injections saw no difference, but apparently according to above info they were not given properly (what a waste) I also tried acupuncture to no avail.|
by momosgarage on 27 November 2012 - 17:23
|No other experiences with Adequan? I'd like to hear if my results are typical.|
by trixx on 27 November 2012 - 17:47
|i have a dog that also has servere HD and has had it from a young age , she is now 7 years old and still shows not signs of pain, but i am guessing as time goes on she may show signs but untill then i dont see a need to supperment her , as she does not limp or show any signs of slowing down.|
by momosgarage on 28 November 2012 - 01:04
|trix, my current older GSD was a rescue that never had problems with her hips but was assumed to have some HD. She made it all the way to 10 years old without an issue, other than the occassional sprain (may not have been that simple, but it always healed without an issue and the vet did a spot check after each instance and said no big deal). Well, she got a throat infection of some kind similar to strep, the vet prescribed Baytril and after taking it has had rear leg weakness ever since. The vet did some x-rays and confirmed the suspected HD, but couldn't explain why the sudden onset of pain when there was none the month prior to taking Baytril. I have read that Baytril is known to cause cartilage damage in young dogs, but after my experience I would say it does in old dogs too. After that we put her on Adequan plus supplements and she's back to where she was before. So I would say Adequan works, but Batril can cause some kind of joint issue in both very young and old dogs.|