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ForumsMain > What is the difference between the West WORKING line and the East German Working line? (5 replies)
What is the difference between the West WORKING line and the East German Working line? by robinr on 26 June 2012 - 05:31 |
| What is the difference between the West WORKING lines and the East German working lines.?? is west working the same as west show line? I am looking in the pedigree of a West Working line male I want to purchase..and as I look further back..there appears to be some black and tan "show" looking dogs in the 60's... can you tell me if the West Working lines are all working...and do they have good drive..?? thanks |
by Hundmutter on 26 June 2012 - 07:51 |
| In Germany (before reunification) the SV's influence did not extend into the East (or not officially). Dogs bred in West Germany are / were bred for Show but they also work, because they need Schutzhund etc qualifications to be shown and for the Korung / Breed Survey. Bearing in mind that Max v Stephanitz intended it to be a working dog above all. However, the Germans also continued to use dogs for herding sheep and other livestock, and some kennels concentrated on HGH qualifications more. Thus in practise there are two basic kennel styles, and sets of bloodlines, one for Showdogs where conformation is concentrated on and there is also at least a minimum of Working ability (unlike in USA and UK where 'Showdogs' have mostly been just that); and secondly for working / herding bloodlines, from which a lot of working lines over the border in the Eastern European bloc, and elsewhere, originate. There is, has, and always will be, some crossover between kennels and lines, so some working dogs look better in terms of the Standard than others. |
Hundmutter by zdog on 26 June 2012 - 19:43 |
| what's the differene? a whole lot of marketing. Who cares if there's a black and tan dog from the 60's. Go see the dog they're breeding, KNOW the dog they're breeding and if you can't do either, you better make sure you absolutely trust and know someobody that can go do it for you. people need to realize that words mean shit, marketing means shit. Go see the dogs, find the dogs you like and buy them. who cares if someone says these dogs are "xyz" because i can promise you "xyz" to someone means "abc" to another. |
by joanro on 26 June 2012 - 20:29 |
| Zdog, great post. |
by BlackthornGSD on 27 June 2012 - 04:24 |
| I think hundmutter gave a very good reply. In the past 20 years since the fall of East Germany, no DDR dogs have been bred just for working ability--they have been bred for looks as much as temperament. In fact, many of the DDR dogs today descend from dogs who were bred as much for the conformation ring as for working ability (more of the conformation-type dogs were preserved; fewer of the real DDR working dogs ever were bred in the SV (West German) system to carry on their bloodlines. There wasn't as great a split then, however--either in East Germany or West Germany. Back in the 60s and 70s the same dogs were showing in up in the pedigrees of working and conformation champions. It's really since the 1970s that this split has grown. Also note that many of the top working producers from DDR bloodlines were incorporated into the West German working lines--dogs such as Lord v Gleisdreieck and Ilya vd Schwarzen Zwinger, Neumann's Janko/Don v Rolandsteich (behind Falk vd Wolfen), Robby v Glockeneck (behind Orry and Nessel v Haus Antverpa) are behind many of today's top-producing workingline dogs. At any rate, I don't think there is such a thing as East German working lines--just East German descendents. They aren't specifically working lines, but nor are they bred for winning in the conformation ring. These dogs can bring in some very nice qualities, many of which are very beneficial to a true working dog--forward defense, natural guarding, often strong herding instincts. But they're not the first choice for most sport venues as their drive levels tend to be moderate and thresholds tend to be high. Sometimes the nerve strength is not all that great--other times, it is excellent--same as other bloodlines. But a nervey dog with a lot of defensive instincts can be a lot more problematic than a nervey dog who is not particularly territorial. In general, today's German workinglines are bred for success in dogsports, especially schutzhund. They tend to be high in prey and food drive, low thresholds (easy to stimulate into action), very trainable and with good handler bond. Sometimes the drive and energy levels are quite high. Depending on the dog/his breeding, some dogs can be hectic. But, in general, they are strong working dogs with lots of confidence, joy in play and work, and a strong need to be interactive with their handlers. Christine |
BlackthornGSD by Hundmutter on 27 June 2012 - 09:48 |
| Christine - Thank you for the more recent details, I know less about the more "modern" working lines as I don't do the work myself ! (poor old cow !). Very interesting and succinct. I think between us we have probably answered the OPs questions; although I have a sneeking sympathy with the zdog position, it doesn't actually matter that much & robin should be assessing the dog(s) s/he is interested in for themself, in the flesh, rather than worrying about the drives of their remote ancestors. Health considerations should of course be carefully taken into account too, though. Linda. |
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