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ForumsMain > i have a question how do u know a great breeder or a bad breeder (114 replies)
i have a question how do u know a great breeder or a bad breeder by Jersey Girl 22 on 19 June 2012 - 22:26 |
| i have a question the question is How do u know who is a great german shepherd breeder and who is not?? i truely would like to know about that bcs when i first bought my dog she was very nice and then she turned out to be mean and she swore up and down that she was a great breeder and everything else that her dogs are OFA certified and all this fony balonie. I dont' know why breeders do this i can't stand breeders that are all about the money rather than the breeed they would rather give u a sick dog for money. I just don't understand that i have loeved german shephrds all my life but now adays alot of breeders are jsut all about the money not about the breed i only know a few that are doing it for the breed and actually guareentee the breed and love their dogs and take good care of them rather than have money. i am truly hurt that that breeder i had gotten my dog from lied and did that to me i really really am. she seemed nice from the start then after i told her all the problems with my shepherd justice that is no longer with me which my whole family was attached too and are now hurting bcs of her not caring non sense and she blames other ppl for her mistakes i really don't get that at all does anyone here understand why ppl do that bcs i would truely like to know i am truely upset and angry about the whole thing i have a broken heart not her she has her dogs and they are healthy i am sure she makes darn sure of that but yet any other person she doesn't care about at all i really can't stand that |
Jersey Girl 22 by SitasMom on 19 June 2012 - 23:10 |
| #1 "she swore up and down that she was a great breeder" did you do a "ripoff" search? did you double check with the OFA database online? did you do a reference check? did you check the internet for any of her puppies wining shows, or gaining titles? as with all business, you must first educate yourself, check and double check everything the seller says....... want to buy some beach front property in arizona? |
by trixx on 19 June 2012 - 23:19 |
| you are going to find alot of breeders like this one, the best advise i can tell you , is start with a good breeder or friend that have had good expereince. there are some good honest breeders out there, i know of some and i am sure there are others that can tell you of some good breeders. always get ref. at the least, a good breeder will always be there for you and yes , they dont breed for the money but more for the breed. where are you located maybe there will be someone that knows of good breeders in your area next time you want to get a pup, i know where your at , i have also been down that same road.i am very sorry to hear about this- |
trixx by macrowe1 on 19 June 2012 - 23:22 |
| "want to buy some beach front property in Arizona", haha Sita that's hilarious. OP I hate that this has happened to you, but you should definately do all your research before finding a breeder. I've seen this hundreds of times, and from what I've seen, you're on the lucky end. At least you thought she was a good responsible breeder, some just buy a pup from someone with sick, skinny dogs who aren't titled or OFA or Pennhipped, or anything else. Best way to tell is through people who have gotten dogs with them before. Have they been happy with what they've gotten? Are their dogs healthy and not aggressive? Check, double check, and triple check with OFA and SV and AKC for titles. Some just realize that if their dogs are hip scored and titled, they can easily sell puppies for more than what they're worth, so they'll alter this. Welcome to the world of breeders. One reason I wish people had to register as breeders, or get their dogs spayed and neutered. There should be certain requirements, but I guess that would be faked, too. |
macrowe1 by GSDguy08 on 20 June 2012 - 00:02 |
| Aside from the hard time I had reading your post, what all was not reputable about this breeder? The dog started out nice? But turned mean? Did I read that right? How old was the dog when you got it, and did you socialize it and train it properly? People who lack in training skills and knowledge on dogs often times blame things on the breeder when something goes wronog with the dog mentally. You said you've had Shepherds all your life? Do you mean growing up as a kid (looking at the 22 on your user name)? Some dogs do well no matter what, without proper training and socialization, I'm curious as to what all you did though. We can view the breeder as bad (whoever it is) but it also comes down to doing your own research before getting a dog or pup, and then it comes down to you either continuing to train, starting training/continuing it, and socializing the pup or dog as well, exercising, etc. We also need to know what "you" did or didn't do. What all health tests/OFA's were done on your dogs parents? You can verify the claims by looking them up on the OFA website. |
GSDguy08 by macrowe1 on 20 June 2012 - 00:48 |
| GSDGuy, from what I got the breeder lied about the titling and OFA. As far as temperment, I agree that if they start out nice but turn mean, that's usually not genetics (JMO). But I'd be pissed if I had paid for what I was thinking was coming from good hips and good titling with no temperment issues, and then the whole mess was just lies. |
by GSDguy08 on 20 June 2012 - 01:24 |
| Of course, but hips/elbows and titles can be varified, can they not? |
by starrchar on 20 June 2012 - 02:16 |
| To clarify, the breeder started out "very nice", while she was selling the pup. When the OP found out her dog had severe HD at one year of age she notified the breeder and the breeder "turned out to be mean". There was nothing wrong with the dog's temperament. Here is the original thread started by the OP. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/bulletins.read?mnr=631353&pagen=2#631503 IMO this breeder took advantage of a novice buyer. It also seems she made false claims about her dogs being OFA certified. According to her contract, which can be viewed online, this breeder owes the OP a replacement pup. From what I understand the breeder is saying that the HD is the OP's fault, so she owes her nothing. Another unscrupulous breeder... THe above is the reason the OP started this thread- doesn't want to make the same mistake again. |
starrchar by Markobytes on 20 June 2012 - 02:41 |
| GSDguy08, I think the op meant the breeder started out nice but turned mean. As far as having a hard time reading the post, get used to it, this is how English is going to be written in the near future. Jersy Girl 22, Unfortunately there are too many breeders out there who either don't care or don't know themselves how to correctly breed a GSD. Most people here in the U.S don't know what a real GSD is, GSDs have been here so long people just think they know what one is. Educate yourself about the breed, learn about breed surveys, all GSDs are supposed to go through a breed survey administered by a breed judge. Both parents of a litter have to have conformation titles, working tittles, hips and elbows certified, DNA tested, pass a 12 mile endurance test, then are brought to Koermeister who thoroughly evaluates them, GSDs passing this test have a designation of KKL1 or KKL2 after their names. This costs a lot of time and money to the breeder and expect the cost to be passed to you. This does not guarantee nothing will go wrong, but sometimes you get what you pay for. At the very least I would want to see the parents, the father may not be on the site but you should be able to touch the adults while the breeder is present without the dog trying to rip your head off. Temperament is largely genetic and your puppy will grow up to be like the dogs it is descended from. Avoid fearful pups, puppies should want to come and see you. Avoid pups raised in filthy conditions, house training can be almost impossible if the pups get used to living in their own excrement. Do not buy a pup because you feel sorry for it, you are only enabling the breeder to mis-treat more pups. Call the authorities if things don't look right. Take rip-off report with a grain of salt, too many complaints come from inferior local breeders trying to bring down the competition, and for a price real complaints can be hidden. |
Markobytes by GSDguy08 on 20 June 2012 - 03:05 |
| Get use to it? Unfortunately I know you're right. It shouldn't be that way though. The youth of America is getting more and more "dumbed down". Not saying this person is dumb by any means, but it's just frustrating trying to "read" so many things people post nowadays. |
by Niesia on 20 June 2012 - 03:06 |
| To answer the question, in my opinion: Good breeder- will use health screened dogs (preferably titled) with good, health screened and proven pedigree that you can verify. Will gladly provide references or any certificates upon request. Won't be annoyed by your questions, will answer them all in detail. In return, he will ask a lot of questions about YOU, YOUR experience with GSDs, YOUR life conditions, etc. Will want to meet YOU (if possible) before accepting a deposit. If the meeting is not possible, he will ask YOU for YOUR references and check them before shipping you a puppy. He will ask about YOUR expectations towards the puppy, the things YOU want to do with the puppy, etc. He will want to find out as much about YOU as possible to steer you towards the right puppy. Breeders who spend a lot of time with their pups know their personalities and often can tell if there is a good fit. Don't be offended if the breeder tells you that the puppy you fell in love with at the first sight is not right for YOU... Don't be offended if the breeder tells you that the type of dogs he is breeding may not be right for YOU... Every puppy will come with sale contract/warranties included in the price. Breeder won't offer price reduction if you resign from contract/warranty and will accept their dogs back anytime for any reason and re-home them. Good breeder will stay in touch and try to help you if you have any issues. Bad breeder- will ask you to send deposit/money and ship you a dog before asking you any questions about YOURSELF... Will say things that won't check out. Please make an educated choice. Ask questions, always check and verify. Visit several breeders, look at different litters. Do it unless you are sure that you want a pup from this particular breeding/ pedigree or this particular breeder comes with great references from several people you know. However, even then, ask questions, check and verify... Don't buy the puppy only because he looks soooooooooo cute in the picture... Cute puppies grow up within few months and turn into adults. If you want to know what to expect in the future - look at the pedigree - not only parents. Probably that's the reason why GSD breed has so many 'lines'. Every 'line' has its own specific characteristics, so please think what YOU want/like in a GSD first, then research the lines and see which one is the right for you. Parents from unknown background/pedigree rarely replicate themselves... Some health issues, like HD likes to skip a generation... etc. etc. etc... And please remember that puppies are living beings. Even the best planned breeding can go south... Each puppy is a big unknown, its growth and developments depends on many things, genetic and environmental alike. Good breeders give puppy as good of a start as they can. However, there are many things that can creep up as a time goes by, and it may not be related to the genetics at all. |
Niesia by Markobytes on 20 June 2012 - 03:43 |
| Niesia, Great post! You included a lot of good things I did not say. GSDguy08, I too don't think the OP is stupid, I am lamenting the obvious negative impact of technology. |
by GSDguy08 on 20 June 2012 - 10:49 |
| markobytes, I never said they are, nor did I say you said they are. I knew what you meant. :) |
by Gustav on 20 June 2012 - 11:09 |
| Good breeders are knowledgable about the breed and their dogs. Good breeders breed GSD to be functional working dogs. Good breeders are honest about things like HD, even if their dogs are certified. Good breeders are not infallible and do not promote false expectations, and fully explain the pros and cons of the dogs they are breeding. Good breeders tell a person that want a passive dog that this is not the breed for them, unless they are breeding pets which automatically makes them NOT a good breeder.JMO |
by beetree on 20 June 2012 - 11:58 |
| It's a crap shoot. You won't know until you try to get your money back on a worthless contract for a defective dog they bred. |
beetree by Blitzen on 20 June 2012 - 12:49 |
| LOL, maybe parents need to take away the equipment so kids learn how to spell "you", "because" "probably"? Do kids have human parents anymore? BTW, it's not just kids who use puter lingo. I know some 50 year olds who do. I didn't read the op's entire post, I don't really care about anything anyone has to say if he or she can't write complete words. Others have done a good job of answering the questions posed. Happy to know that not everyone is as crabby as I am. |
Blitzen by Niesia on 20 June 2012 - 17:21 |
| Gustav, I couldn't not to answer your post.... I really want to understand what you meant... "Good breeders tell a person that want a passive dog that this is not the breed for them, unless they are breeding pets which automatically makes them NOT a good breeder.JMO" Majority of GSDs, even from your 'working lines' are sold as PETS. If all the other sibling of your 'working dog' have been sold to pet homes - does it automatically mean that the breeder you bought your dog from is a BAD breeder?... |
by Niesia on 20 June 2012 - 18:10 |
| Gustav, I have to say that I agree with everything you said until your last sentence. I see that you are currently advertising puppies for sale. Your add says... "Mother and Sire have excellent hip history and superb temperament. Excellent for sport or family dogs." Well, aren't family dogs - PETS? As I interpret what you stated in your post, wouldn't that make you a bad breeder?... What percentage of GSDs around the world are primarily working dogs? I actually believe that the majority of all GSD puppies become pets. I do not judge the breeder by the fact that they are selling their dogs to pet homes. Good, health and great temperament are as important in pets as in working dogs. Assuming that the majority of dogs are pets, it is even more important for breeders to make sure that they produce good dogs. Pets, are the dogs that you see around. Pets are the animals who live in homes with real families with children, etc. - the real representation of the breed to the general public. RE: as you state in your post about explaining pros and cons of the dogs you have; In the few years I have been breeding, I have seen several first hand examples of 'good breeders' of real 'working dogs' sell their puppies to the general public without asking the purchasers if they know what they are getting into, or even if they have any experience with large, high drive, working dogs like GSDs... Why do you think you see so many adds "one year old, purebred GSD, free to a good home" (or worse - dumped in shelters)... The people in that position, whom I have spoken to, were simply just unable to handle that much dog... And it should have not been sold to them in the first place! |
by Jersey Girl 22 on 20 June 2012 - 18:13 |
| ok thank u for those of u that answered about my comment about good and bad breeders. The ones that are really being rude and not very nice IT WASN'T my fault that the breeder did what she did to me if u read my other thread on here u would know and realize everything that women had done to me. NO im not gonna get used to it either it is very rong and disrepectful to do to ppl and always as breed dogs that have hip problems i am not gonna sit there and take that i love dogs and i hate the stupid ppl that breed and dont' know how to do it and just care more about money then their dogs i would put them before me honestly bcs that is how i am and no i am not a little kid i am an adult yea sry i missed spelled some things u don't have to be rude and not caring i am only writting how i feel and how i was mislead and honestly i don't want to make that same mistake again. If u dont' like what i am posting then keep ur thoughts and stuff to ur self please im not fighting with anyone on here all i am doing is just saying people shouldn't be being rude when i said nothing rong all i am doing is trying to figure out who is a good breeder and who is bad and what exactly i ahve to watch for. thank u Niesia for everyhting u wrote ur absolutly right on that i will make sure now i keep that in mind and dont' make the same again. and thank u so so much for the ones that gave me nice comments and hellped me out as well i really apperciate it and i will keep all of ur advice for next time. Thank u all for ur help i greatly apperciate it |
by Gustav on 20 June 2012 - 18:20 |
| Niesla, there is a difference in selling a dog to pet home and BREEDING for pets. |
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