Main > i need some advice if that is possible (38 replies)
i need some advice if that is possible
by Jersey Girl 22 on 13 June 2012 - 02:06
hello i was told to come on here for some advice well here it goes i had boughten a dog in Ohio from an ohio breeder when i first got him he looked like he was amaciated and was skin and bones and was eating his own poop, also he clearly had runny stoles that was due to coccydia i took him to the vet and the vet rote me an unfit for sale letter being that he was sick and had coccidya and tapeworm plus other parasites that obvisouly should have been resolved before i got him i paid 1400 for him i beleive he was the runt of the litter not sure she didn't say so after i took him to the vet i made sure i weaned him back to where he should have been making sure he was getting tons of nutrional and the best food there is to gain weight which was working i basically helped him get back to where he should have been as he was growing , but since he started to grow up i have noticed he was basically leaning more so on his left leg and would stumble on his right leg alot i talked to the vet about that they said they wanted to do xrays when he gets alittle older well he is now 1 years old and i beleive not even a half yet and jsut the other day i had token him to the vet with an emergency he wasn't walking on his leg at all he was practically hoping and wouldn't put any pressure on his leg at all and when u would touch his leg or even around his hip he would try to nip and bite u. so i took him to the vet and the vet said just this
by EuroShepherd on 13 June 2012 - 02:25
How soon did you take the dog to vet's (and the vet said he was unfit for sale) after getting him from the breeder?
Can you post photos/copies of the hip x-rays here? (with proof in the photos that they are yours/your dog's)
If she says all of her dogs are OFA hip certified then you can confirm that by looking on OFA's website and searching the names of her dogs www.offa.org
For your sake, record all communications with this breeder, keep all email conversations with her that you've had, keep all vet records and get written statements from your vet, get screen-print copies of all the pages of the breeder's website (especially the ones where she talks about her warranty/gaurantees/health info on her dogs.)
Did you pay $1,400 for this dog without getting a warranty or papers? Do you have a copy of, or any records of, your transaction with this breeder?
I also sent you a PM so check you pm box.
by Nans gsd on 13 June 2012 - 02:34
|I am so sorry for your experience, however, you are coming here for help after the fact. We can probably NOT help you now.|
by LOVE THY SHEPHERD on 13 June 2012 - 02:37
YES, DEFINITELY KEEP ALL YOUR RECORDS AND REMAILS. GO TO THE WEBSITE MENTIONED AND
CHECK YOURSELF FOR THE OFA RECORDS. ALSO GO TO THE PERSONS SITE AND COPY ANYTHING
THAT SAYS ABOUT HIPS, WARRANTIES ETC.
DID SHE GIVE YOU ANY TYPE OF WARRANTY OR CONTRACT ? DO U WANT TO SAY WHO THE BREEDER IS ?
IF EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS TRUE THEN YOUR NOTH BASHING ANYONE. PUPPY BUYERS WANT/NEED TO KNOW
THESE THINGS. IS THE PESON THAT U GOT THE PUPPY FROM NEAR YOU ? IF SO I WOULD TAKE SOMEONE
WITH YOU AS A WITNESS AND GO THERE IN PERSON AND TALK WITH THE BREEDER. GOOD LUCK
by LOVE THY SHEPHERD on 13 June 2012 - 02:39
IF ANYTHING SHE SHOULD GIVE U A REPLACEMENT. I WOULD MAKE DARN SURE THAT SHE HAS
A RECENT VET RECEIPT FOR THE NEW REPLACEMENT. I KNOW IT'S HARD TO GIVE A DOG UP, BUT
THAT'S A TERRIBLE BURDEN FOR SOMEONE TO HAVE TO PAY FOR THE HIP REPLACEMENT AND ALL.
by starrchar on 13 June 2012 - 03:17
|I'm so sorry to hear about what you and your dog are going through. I really feel for you. You sound like a very kind and responsible person who deeply cares about the well being of your dog. I don't have anything to add to what others said regarding your breeder. Your breeder should know that just because her dogs have good hips doesnt mean that they can't produce pups with bad hips or a congenital deformity. Her response is very disappointing to say the least and if she was truly a responsible and honest breeder she'd be handling this in a much different manner. Please keep us posted. I wish for you and your pup the very best.|
by Niesia on 13 June 2012 - 04:00
I agree with EuroShepherd. Please post some current photos and the pedigree.
by SitasMom on 13 June 2012 - 05:37
|do you live in a lemon law state?|
by Rass on 13 June 2012 - 13:37
|OP, your post was very difficult to read (grammatically) and very hard to read for all your troubles. |
NJ has a Puppy Lemon Law (assuming you live in NJ from your user name).
At this point you need to make some decisions... either use the law and probably return the dog or pay for any recommended remedial treatment for the dog as suggested by your vet.
Good luck. I am sorry you are going through all this.
by Jersey Girl 22 on 13 June 2012 - 16:39
|hello everyone thank u so so much for commenting and helping me out and giving me some adivice i do live in a lemon law state i am located in NJ. i have bought him from Willow Valley German shepherds long and plush coat in Ohio her website clearly states that all her dogs are OFA certified. when i first started talking to her she told me that she treats her dogs greatly and that they aren't in kennels she keeps them all in the house basically saying she is one of the best breeders but so i said ok and i really liked her dogs. so the mother is Karma and his father is Justice as well that is my dogs name actually he is justice jr i named him but i call mine justice not jr but anyhow i have tried to scan my xrays of my dogs hips and i am not able to do that so i am going to try to get them to put it on a cd or something so i can show everyone that his hips aren't truely good. it truely is upsetting the breeder is Janie V i don't know her last name all that well but she actually has 3 litters now not to mention i honestly don't know if this is possible but could Line breeding be a problem she does that to she bred father and daughter together like i said im not bashing anyone for that, that is her own progative but if anyone is gonna get a puppy just be ware bcs i dont' think u can do that but then again im not a breeder so i honestly do not know about this that is why i was asking if it can be done. she actually charges for warrenty and papers i did pay 1400 for him like i said but when i honestly bought him i had him shipped so i was not aware of how he looked or anything she said she would send me tons of photos and she sent me photos but then again he didn't look like that at all to be quiet honest with u he was so so small and was skin and bones even my family didn't think that was normal i thought it was just me but it wasn't. i did email her after i got back from the vet after the fact about the parasites and after i got the unfit for sale letter and she blammed it on me as usual and said that is normal puppies get worms and everything like that, so basiacally everything is always and forever is my fault. i didnt' do anything then bcs i felt the meds treated him and he will be ok and i didnt' want to go thru with making an ass out of myself just bcs of that when now since the hip problem came about i have contacted her and all she does is blame me and bash me and asked wat i did to him when like i said i clearly would never hurt my dog i love animals if i can have tons i would. she said she sent me a contract and turely never ever did. the thing is the first time i talked to her i backed out me and my fiance backed out of buying him the first time bcs i just wasn't sure being ohio is a long ways away and i didn't know if we should go thru with it bcsi honesly hate shipping a puppy its so harsh on them and causes trama to them but then i seen his photos she had on her website and the dumby that i am i feel in love with him i couldn't resist so we emailed her and she had an attittude and tried to honestly charge more for him and she said he was a plush coat but then on her site that she posted him on said that he was a long coat which he isn't a long coat he is a plush she charges 1200 with out papers and warrenty and 1500 for limited papers and warrenty. i honestly can't remember if we did get the warrenty but i do know in AKC u can't charge for papers they frown upon that i heard i am truely upset about the whole thing all i want for him to get better the vet told me if the hips don't get operated on he told me they will get worse and will give out more and more and eventually i hate saying this, that i would have to put him to sleep and i HATE doing that but i dont' want to see him suffer at all its a shame he is on pain meds actually i was looking over his paper work and seen that he weights 71.5 ibs sry about my mistake but i still see that as a problem when i talked to her about that she gave me an attittude too u can never know how big they are gonna get but all his brothers and ssiters are bigger than him and other sibblings from the same father. i agree i honestly think she should pay for his replacement hip or give me a replacement dog but then again as i said before i dont' want a replacement puppy i do love my dog very much i treat my dog as he is my spoiled rotten son it just bothers me to no end i am doing everything i can to get records so that everyone can see wat i am talking about. i hope i rote everything to answer everyones questions i am devistated about all this if i forgot anything please let me know thanks again everyone i really apperciate it|
by Rass on 13 June 2012 - 17:31
|From their Puppy Contract..|
It seems parasites and coccidia are a kennel problem:
"Seller certifies that this puppy is a purebred German Shepherd Dog of sound body, good health, and free of communicable diseases as far as appears to the eye. Said Puppy has been checked by a certified veterinarian at 7 (seven) weeks of age and was deemed healthy. De-wormings and first immunizations will have been completed and a copy of the same will be provided for health records. It is recognized that intestinal parasites (worms, coccidia, giardia, etc.) are common in puppies, and are part of a puppy's early development, but we make every effort to prevent parasites. (Attached find information regarding coccidia"
And there is this:
"Puppies will be wormed 3-4 times before leaving for their new home and receive, at least, their first puppy vaccination. Often, however, the stress of change and travel can cause intestinal parasites to emerge. Buyer agrees to continue parasite testing and treatment (if necessary) with their veterinarian. Buyer is encouraged to have the puppy examined by their own veterinarian within 72 (seventy-two) hours after purchase of the puppy. If the examination discloses SERIOUS health problems, of which may permanently disable the animal or cause death, or an untreatable infectious illness, which are not caused by conditions after receipt, the puppy must be returned to THE BREEDER, immediately, for an exchange of a healthy puppy, at Buyers expense."
"Seller warrants the puppy for 12 months to be free of genetic disease that would cause severe disability or death. Seller warrants the hips of Puppy to OFA standard. Hips are warranted to be FREE OF MODERATE TO SEVERE HIP DYSPLASIA"
by Rass on 13 June 2012 - 17:38
|the last is this from the contract on their website for a Pet Puppy:|
"This warranty expires when the puppy turns 24 (twenty-four") months old. The pups hips must be x-rayed between the age of two by a certified veterinarian skilled at producing hip x-rays for OFA evaluation. These x-rays must be submitted to OFA.
The pup is guaranteed by the breeder to certify in preliminary OFA x-ray WITHOUT MODERATE HIP DYSPLASIA.
If the pup is not rated Excellent, Good, or Fair, and therefore moderately to severely dysplastic the Buyer has the option of a replacement puppy. If Buyer opts to keep their puppy, they MUST be SPAYED/NEUTERED by their veterinarian and proof must be provided Seller PRIOR to receiving a new puppy.
AKC Paperwork must be returned in order to receive replacement.."
This was extracted from a faulty zip file on their site.
by Jersey Girl 22 on 13 June 2012 - 17:44
|Hip Xrays for Justice Jr. taken the best i could with camera phone. I know the positioning is bad but I dont think repositioning them would make them any better. I tried to make them big so you can see them good. Let me know what you all think please.|
by Rass on 13 June 2012 - 17:47
|From what their website says, you need to submit the Xrays to OFA for a determination and if they dog is bad per OFA he needs to be neutered and you can get a replacement. |
Of course, if you don't have the paper work you haven't got much of anything.
YOU are going to have to deal with this. It may mean you need to get a lawyer involved.. but w/o paperwork, you don't have a lot to work with.
From your post it was unclear if this breeder is inbreeding Father to daughter? When you post, can you PLEASE use PUNCTUATION and Paragraphs so your posts are readable? Thanks and good luck.
by Niesia on 13 June 2012 - 18:14
|I visited their website and their puppy contract seems well put together and very detailed. They admit that if the HD is diagnosed in dogs under 18 months of age - it's genetic and they give full guarantee. Link to the contract http://www.willowvalleygsd.com/FWThumbnails/Willow%20Valley%20German%20Shepherds%20PET%20CONTRACT.docx |
I'm sorry you don't have a contract for this pup. I don't know if Ohio has a lemon law and I don't know if the NJ lemon law applies to the out of state seller. You will need to contact a lawyer to find out what you can do. But first you have to provide any written proof (i.e. cashed checked specifying what the amount was for, contract, shipping slip, etc.) of buying this particular pup (i.e. microchip identification #, AKC #, etc.) from this particular breeder. If this case ends up in court (probably small claims court), you will have to prove that this dog was bred by this particular breeder and that you are the person that purchased this particular dog directly from him (unless breeder admits to it in court).
If it goes to court you will also need to prepare yourself to proving that there was no negligence on your side in taking care of the pup while in your care, i.e.: vet receipts starting with the first check up done after his arrival, food bills, etc. Breeder's contract specify this as well.
I'm sorry but I do not believe that you would be lucky enough, even if you win in court, that the breeder will be made to pay for the very expensive hip replacement surgery in your pup. Probably, in the best case, you will get your money back and you won't have to return the dog to get this refund.
The pictures of the hips you provided look pretty bad, could you please post a picture of your dog.
by Niesia on 13 June 2012 - 19:02
BTW - WOW, their GSDs are huge:
by Jersey Girl 22 on 13 June 2012 - 19:24
|sry about no puncuation when i type i just type really quickly and i don't realize it i am truely sry about that and well i do have the paper work that i did get my dog from her i have the shipping paper work but i dont know if that will help or not. well i guess i am gonna have to try to take it to court i mean i do have proof of getting justice from her bcs of things. I am truely upset right now tho bcs something has to be done i mean he is an extremly small male and his siblings weigh alot more than him which is a bit riducles. Janie said this 71.5 ibs isn't really my breeding usually they are at least 75 ibs or more but the funny thing is all her dogs are in the 90ibs or more thats what i find funny. his hips are truely truely bad the vet said its genetic and the only way to fix his hips is surgery there is no other option at all at this point and on. i just can't beleive she would do this she said she breeds for health and everything but how is it that my dog has all these problems. The vet said that at a year and acouple months he should not have any of these problems at all or wat so ever, honestly i can't even walk him long anymore, and he cant really play ball, the vet told me he really can't be active also he said at any given time his hip can dislocate again it will keep happening as long as he doesn't get his surgery. i am doing everything i can to help him i am a vet assitant/ tech i would never harm my dog and obciously i can prove that bcs i am certified and among other things she posts on her website that she breeds for health and all this stuff but my dog isn't healthy and was not when i first got him. i guess ill have to take her to court and see what i can do i mean i have an unfit for sale letter plus the xrays and hopefully my vet will give me a report on things i am gonna call them and talk to my vet. Also i have tried to talk to lawyers some of them won't help me bcs they dont' do that kinda of case i honestly can't find any lawyer that will help me at all. Honestly this is rong that i have to have my dog suffer like this and for me to get dooped when i don't deserve this at all that is how i really feel. plus if i don't get the surgery done in a couple years he may have to be put to sleep. yes i will post photos of my justice and also his father and brother are in the data base i will post them as well|
by Jersey Girl 22 on 13 June 2012 - 19:51
|ok i am on the OFA website the only problem is i dont' know how to send them the photos of my dogs xrays or how i should go about doing this is there anyone that knows how to do it or anything i was going to call them and find out but i dont' want to look dumb|
by Niesia on 13 June 2012 - 20:15
|If Justice von der Weide Haus is a father of your pup http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=668832 I don't believe he's got OFA certified hips. His AKC# doesn't find any matches. However I found his full brother Unser Keno Von Himmlischetal confirmed OFA dysplastic. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=668824 .|
I searched deeper into pedigree and it looks like Justice's parents or grandparents haven't been OFA'd either. Going even deeper, you'll find few certified dogs with 'fast normal' rating (also dysplastic). HD can skip a generation so you need to look not only at parents but also at least grandparents to see your chances...
With family history of HD in your pup pedigree it is obvious that it is a genetic flaw.
Regarding sending your x-ray to OFA - you may ask your vet to do it for you if you prefer. Here is the link to the Application you would have to fill in and submit with the X-rays http://www.offa.org/pdf/hdedapp_bw.pdf . It also has step-by-step instruction on how to do it. Good luck.
I couldn't find any progeny of Justice on this database.
by Jersey Girl 22 on 13 June 2012 - 20:20
|Unser Keno Von Himmlischetal - German Shepherd Dog|
Justice von der Weide Haus - German Shepherd Dog
this is justices father that is in the data base the Justice the other one is my dogs dads brother