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ForumsTraining and Obedience > Slowing down the speed demon tracker (20 replies)
Slowing down the speed demon tracker by VonIsengard on 25 May 2012 - 13:12 |
| So after taking a break due to personal chaos, I'm back on the training wagon with my youngest. A bit of a break to mature seems to have focused her tracking- where previously, she was chaotic, weaving all over the track, not settled into the footsteps, now she is VERY one-track-minded on the odor. Problem, if you consider it a problem? She is a BULL. I am grateful she's not even 50 pounds. She wants to haul me down the track, and while I'm glad she has so much drive for it, I'm concerned about her missing turns/articles if she doesn't learn to be a bit more methodical. I'm going to take her out right now and run her with a lot of turns and less bait, see if it makes her think, and start her on articles next week. I have a few tricks to slow a dog down, but I'm curious what others' experiences are and if anyone else has any ideas I haven't thought of or been taught yet to slow down a dog that tracks like her tail is on fire. I have no desire to quell her desire to track at all, just to slow down a teeny bit, for my piece of mind more than anything. I've had a few strong trackers myself, and started a few K9s that want to speed down a track, but NOTHING like this dog. She is CRAZY. Maybe I should track her pulling a few tractor tires.  |
VonIsengard by Dobermannman on 25 May 2012 - 13:32 |
| A prong collar on both rings will slow down most dogs as long as it doesn't hurt their drive. Adding more articles helps slow down a dog. So I guess you need to work on articles first? :-) I had one dog that I had the line around my waist and the dog drug me around the track. You joked about tractor tires, but it might be worth putting a car tire/rim on the end of a long line and see how that works to slow her down? Dennis Helm has a Tracking Guide and he uses weight pulling to condition his Dobermanns. I'm not sure if he ever combined the two and had them dragging a tire while tracking. Thomas Barriano Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) BH STP I |
by TJL852 on 25 May 2012 - 16:02 |
| Start over with footstep tracking and make sure she understands she has to sniff each footstep in order to proceed. Circle tracks, serpentine tracks will help. Also, if she is rushing to get to the jackpot at the end, incorporate in the track several small scent pads with a handful of food in each of them as you lay the track. Several jackpots instead of just one at the end helps a lot. |
by TJL852 on 25 May 2012 - 16:07 |
| Also, the more you try to slow her down with a line the harder she will try to pull. Tracking off leash or with slack in the line (once she understands the concept of footstep tracking) is much better than trying to slow her down with a tight line. The more resistance against her, the more she will want to fight and plow through the resistance. |
by Elkoorr on 25 May 2012 - 16:52 |
| No jackpot at the end. I would not add extra corners. If she is very food oriented, add more bait. Lay circle tracks, dont go behind the dog, but to the side, so she cant pull. If she gets the circle, stepp more towards the middle of the circle, let her just work out the track on her own and keep the line slack. Once she is more methodical, then slowly go with her again, first more to the side, then behind her. If she doesnt pull once you are behind her again, go back to straight lines with a wide u-turn, then slowly close in the turn untill you have a corner. Be patient :) |
Elkoorr by hexe on 25 May 2012 - 17:56 |
| And, on top of everything else said above, I'll repeat to you what Armin Winkler told me when I asked the same question: "If she's not missing any turns or articles, and follows the track like a train on rails, why bother?" Now, granted, he DID first ask if I was shooting for high-level competition, or if I just wanted to work and title my dog, and my intentions were the latter...I realize that if you're wanting more than to just earning honest titles on her, you're going to need to keep every single point you can and the for some bizarre reason, the sport wants to see footstep-to-footstep, s-l-o-w tracking that can be done at a lazy walk so you've got to cut her speed in that case. IMO, if I'm needing a dog to track someone or something, I'm needing the dog to find that person or thing as quickly as possible, not as leisurely as can be! Yet another way the sport has devolved the exercises from being the testing to determine if a dog is suitable as a breeding candidate in it's work ethic and ability. Schutzhund has long since stopped being about the dogs, unfortunately. |
by Dobermannman on 26 May 2012 - 00:36 |
| TJL852 I'm curious about how many dogs you've actually put tracking titles on? You asked the very same question two years ago in a Vapor topic and now you're giving advise. What is your advise based on?
Thomas Barriano
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by TJL852 on 26 May 2012 - 05:42 |
| I don't even remember asking the question two years ago cause that was two years ago, jeez. Damn, you must be bored to be sitting on the Internet trying to recall if my information is valid. Ive been training IPO for 4 years and have taken a 11 week old malinois to a IPO3, PSA PDC and another puppy to a BH. She should have her 1 in a couple months. This is why you won't ever see another post from me, because of idiots like you. Don't assume anything. Go train. |
by Dobermannman on 26 May 2012 - 12:55 |
| TJL852, So the answer is since you first asked the SAME question only two years ago. You personaly trained ONE dog to track? Typical Internet Expert, hiding behind a user name. What's even funnier is, if your "expertise" is questioned or you're asked for a llittle background. You get all pissy like a little girl and "threaten" to not post again ROTFLMAO. Jeez, if you hadn't of made the announcement no one would have noticed. Why don't you come back when you have some real experience and you're not just regurgitating something you read on the internet or heard from an experienced trainer Thomas Barriano Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) BH STP I |
by TJL852 on 26 May 2012 - 13:27 |
| Lol yeah Thomas you're exactly right. Not saying I am an expert, but it worked for me. Was just tryin to help someone out and you come on here accusing me of not having titled any dogs. Look at how many posts you have posted on here compared to mine. Yeah I'm the Internet trainer alright. I work my ass off, enjoy training and give my dogs the best possible life so go screw with someone else buddy. By the way, my name is Tim Leonard and I'm not here to argue so I'll catch ya later, Thomas. |
by Wildbill7145 on 27 May 2012 - 05:16 |
| Nice flame war folks. This is the exact reason this forum gets so little valuable posts. I was actually interested in the OP's questions, as I'm thinking about getting into tracking. But hey, what's a thread jacking if you have a whack of titles after your names? Keep the peen war going. It's entertaining for nobody other than yourselves. |
Wildbill7145 by duke1965 on 27 May 2012 - 19:55 |
| I agree with TJL , you can resoulve the result of the problem , or resoulve the origin of the problem , hanging on the line and prongcollars wont get to the origin of the problem , I would say go back to the beginning, trackin in a square here is how i do it http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qmm6GB2Hrxw |
by Dobermannman on 27 May 2012 - 23:57 |
| Reread the OP. Speed is the onlly problem. Going back to fully baited steps is a waste of time and energy. There is a difference between tracking and hot dog hunting or Liver luring. A prong collar on both rings can work. It is sure worth a try? Adding more articles will slow a speed demon down. A lot of experienced people don't post here because informative posts get lost in the sheer number of nonsense posts by people with no experience spouting second hand information. Thomas Barriano Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) BH STP I |
by duke1965 on 28 May 2012 - 05:23 |
| would it be worth more if I add all my achievements of the last 25 years under my name if you want to fix a problem you want to fix what caused the problem, not what it is resulting in |
by Dobermannman on 28 May 2012 - 13:38 |
| Duke 1965 Your reply would be worth more if it was based on personal experience. I had the same probem trying to slow down my Dobermann male Jago. I did some one on one training with a well known FST trainer and she suggested the prong (amongst other things) and it worked very well (we V'd our next track). As far as the tiltes after my name? If YOU have some way of indicating that your advice is based on your own experience and not some theory you're regurgitating? Why wouldn't you post it? Let's hear how many dogs you've trained or titled in Schutzhund. Titles talk and BS walks (but it don't track) If the original poster wants REAL tracking advice? Go train with Gene England or Tim and Lori Cruser or buy one of Gary Patterson's books or Joanne Plumbs Fondations of Tracking DVD set. Thomas Barriano Dubheasa Germania (11/05/99-08/11/08) SchH III M R Brevet AKC WD III AWD 1 STP 1 CD WAC TT Ascomannis Jago (06/20/03) SchH III AKC WD III AWD I TT WAC Belatucadrus (08/14/05) DS BH TT MR I Flannchadh von der Bavarianburg (5/21/08) BH STP I |
by duke1965 on 28 May 2012 - 13:59 |
| thomas , not everybody is the same and feels the need to publisch achievements under every post to give weight on their opinion , if you read my previous post and see the video , that is me and my new dog and that is how I do it, first in the square, where the dog doesnot have the possability to run and the result is that you can track without line or linepressure. if you are believer of prong and muscle, fine , but many trainers are past that station |
by isachev on 28 May 2012 - 14:54 |
| I went from all baited track to every 5 to 7 steps. All he did was race to every 5th or 7th step. LOL Now I've been staggering my bait. Seem's to be working. Sometimes every other step, then nothing for 10. Keep's him thinking and checking every step now. Good Luck. Pete |
isachev by Dobermannman on 28 May 2012 - 15:03 |
| Duke, Show me a video of your dog tracking, not following hot dogs or other treats with visible foot prints. This is a young dog and not old enough to trial? How has this method worked on your other dogs? I'm a believer in using what ever tool it takes to get the job done. Treats and clickers or prongs and remote trainers. Thomas Barriano |
by duke1965 on 28 May 2012 - 15:22 |
| Thomas you are right it is training , no trail , and it is a young dog, but more useful than watching a dog tracking in competition as that wont tell you how it was trained I agree on every tool that gets the job done, but still say that prong and muscle dont solve the problem , maybe only the result of the problem, and that can possibly create other problems and ive seen quite a few of them, nothing better and learning faster than the dog himself bringing the answer |
by Shezam1 on 30 May 2012 - 02:51 |
| Try aging the tracks and that could help. |
Shezam1
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