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German Shepherd Dog > Inbreeding, Line-breeding, outcrossing, outbreeding (12 replies)

by GermanShepherd<3 on 18 December 2010 - 20:12

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Can someone explain this to me? Like how it works? Which ones do breeders usually do..why or why not? And are some of them bad to do? How do you read the line breeding with the numbers on the pedigrees?

Thanks!

by Gustav on 18 December 2010 - 21:12

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Is this a setup? I don't mean the question negatively, its just I read on another thread where you were declaring what was good and bad breeding in showlines. To make those kind of statements you certainly have to know the ins and outs of these types of breeding. Just curious?

by GermanShepherd<3 on 19 December 2010 - 01:12

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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:30 pm
Wait which answer did i post you are talking about..the one about the roached back?
and no its not a setup..I am a teen okay..I am trying to learn this stuff. The GSD has been my passion for the longest time..and when the time comes and I will be ready I want to understand exactly what the breeder is talking about. Like Hans, he was talking in a thread once about those two pups (the one he sold to the crazy woman), and was talking about how they were bred, and I really wanted to understand exactly what that meant..I looked online for other things to try and understand.
All the the things I learned about breeding was from breeders themselves who took the time to talk to me..they told me the most important part of breeding..and I know I may only be 16, but the German Shepherd has been everything to me all my life..I was able to foster one, and it was the greatest experience. Being reputable breeders, to me is what I said in that thread, because when I look into my pup one day that is what I want.

So in short, no I am not a breeder, or someone trying to set up someone..this is just for my personal knowledge. I found some of my answer on a website, that kinda helped..but really I just want to learn, if you wanna answer or someone else does I would be more than happy to hear what you guys have to say!

And sorry if I came across as trying to setup something or stir up trouble. I hope this cleared it. Have a great night!

by Gustav on 19 December 2010 - 03:12

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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 01:47 am
Its no problem, I think you have more than cleared it up for me. I commend you on your thirst for knowledge and hope you continue to keep learning because we need young people to carry the torch. I thought it was a question that you might already know the answer but wanted to get the inbreeder vs outcrossers started. My bad....Good Luck and hang in there!!!

by darylehret on 19 December 2010 - 03:12

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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 06:58 am
Private school?  Didn't think kids could write so well these days.

I would advise that; to help minimize risk, you can linebreed on particular dogs that have been successfuly linebred upon before.  In west-workingline breeding, lots of linebreeding on Fero, Troll and Yoschy has already been conducted, and not at a lot of terrible expense.  Same with the Ingo, Held and Bero bloodlines of the czech dogs.

Those are the two that I have concentrated my linebreeding interest in, but the point is, neither are completely uncharted territory.  I will not be the first, and were I to push the evelope, it would be in more recent generations of the same lines (i.e., a "2-3" on Bero's grandson, Faro Policia), or in combination with different linebreeding of weaker strength (further back, but of an unrelated line, like a 4-4 Cordon An Sat).  Both Faro and Cordon have established themselves successfully in previous linebreeding already.  Some of the "guesswork" will have been eliminated by those who have gone before and helped pave the way.

Selection of the animal's phenotype is and always will have the greater impact than looking at pedigree alone.  Even same-siblings linebred 4,3-4,4 on so-and-so have the potential to be very different from each other in outward appearance and general behavior.

by ziegenfarm on 19 December 2010 - 06:12

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generally speaking, inbreeding and linebreeding are used to "set in" traits.  once that is done successfully, outcrossing and crossbreeding are used to bring in new blood to compensate for deficiencies and to add vigor.
as i said, these are general statements and pertain to livestock as well as smaller animals.
pjp

by duke1965 on 19 December 2010 - 17:12

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Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 06:04 pm
to be able to outcross , you need unrelated bloodlines
the only way to keep unrelated bloodlines available is in/linebreeding
to pick up wanted traits in a inbred bloodline you need to outcross

like yin and yang

by Jeff Oehlsen on 19 December 2010 - 18:12

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Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 02:16 am
 The only way you will ever learn is to breed dogs. Theory is fun to discuss, but what actually happens is different in a lot of ways.

by sable59 on 19 December 2010 - 18:12

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Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 02:16 am
in keeping a bloodline strong we must out cross and line breed. in order to make a bloodline,we must,inbreed,out cross,and linebreed.that much i have learned from school and the pros.

by Rik on 19 December 2010 - 22:12

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Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 03:41 am
hello GS<3. Neither is in itself necessarily good or bad. Unless one has knowledge of the dogs for several generations it is still pretty much a shot in the dark, however you breed.

Jeff said it very well. You just have to do it, evaluate, recognize the good and bad and build on that in the next generation. after 3 or 4 generations, you'll have a pretty good idea of what you are dealing with in your dogs.

I read all the books, attended the seminars, soaked in the wisdom of those I considered successful and this is what I learned. There is no "secret" to breeding. Breed a very good female to a very good male and maybe you get a very good puppy. Did not happen often for me.

I think back now on how brilliant I thought these breeders who produced the dogs I idolized. With a little age, I realized if it was really some secret knowledge or formula they had, then they would be producing the super stars in every litter, instead of once or twice in a lifetime.

JMO,
Rik

by GermanShepherd<3 on 20 December 2010 - 05:12

Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:30 pm
Thanks everyone for the kind comments and responses, lol and no I don't go to private school..my parents came for us in America so that just game me lots of motivation, why throw away such good opportunities?!

So basically when you do those types of breeding..this is considered the hardest part of it all because you have to know exactly how to use the traits already in the dogs and balance it as well as the ancestors? And from what I understood, in breeding can cause either a good or bad thing, and its more on risk, while line breeding is not quite so much?

And on pedigrees where it says for example 3-3 on yasko..and so and so..does that just mean that they did to try to bring out the traits?

here is an article i also read.

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/breeding-types.html

Once again thanks to everyone! :) 

by darylehret on 20 December 2010 - 06:12

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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 06:58 am

they would be producing the super stars in every litter, instead of once or twice in a lifetime

I think every litter would be a stretch for the best of them.  However, the frequency of improved pups can be sure to "double" with the prepotent properties of a linebred producer.  Then again, for each additional criteria point you wish to adhere to, your odds are again "halved" of achieving your full desired combination of characteristics.  (thought you could use a chart)

Prepotent vs. NOT


 

by GermanShepherd<3 on 23 December 2010 - 20:12

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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:30 pm
Very interesting thank you!!

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