Main > Keeping Your Dog Safe from Law Enforcement (303 replies)
by ggturner on 11 May 2012 - 00:35 |
| Oh geez---this thread cannot stay on topic! How about getting involved with your local police to devise ways to protect both officers and dogs??? |
by GSD Admin on 11 May 2012 - 00:44 |
| Easy, don't give them a reason to bust in. But then you have those mistakes and they bust into the wrong house and shoot the dog, call you the f word, treat you like criminals and then go oops. Oh well it is what it is, when we allow it and set back and think it could never happen to us. BTW, members want us to allow threads to go off topic and find there own way back. Didn't you get the memo? |
by Slamdunc on 11 May 2012 - 00:46 |
| How about getting involved with your local police to devise ways to protect both officers and dogs??? Nahh, that would require some people to leave the safety of their keyboard. It is so much easier to bash cops at every opportunity. Some one else can do all the work while they sit back and criticize. |
by ShelleyR on 11 May 2012 - 01:00 |
| What Slamdunk said. |
by BabyEagle4U on 11 May 2012 - 01:00 |
| OK, this is my last post to this thread .. I promise. Beings the only Data Mining of these atrocities I've ever read on the internets is from people I know via the NPMSRPso we pulled together a meeting last night to concider other options. Because we simply cannot do everything - right now we are investigating vote fraud on a nation wide scale. We all have real jobs and do online research as a hobby - the Vote Integrity involves alot of boots on the ground and travels in addition to our scheduled campaign Rallies and Events. But, this current Police State and murder of innocent animals and humans linger on our minds, especially the murders of our Veterans. It's been agreed on - we will fund and hire a full time professional statistical analysis and database miner for this Police and SWAT crimes. Our cost $62.00 per hour. We sent payment in advance after our meeting for a 40 hour week 8 month work period plus escrow. I expect nationwide raw data in about 8 months - then it will take another 4-8 for the peer review. After the peer review the statistics will be available online for the world to see. The NPMSRP website http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/ has been suspended and will continue after a transfer to new ownership. RIP Dogs. |
by ggturner on 11 May 2012 - 01:01 |
| True, it is so easy to criticize, especially when the critics have no experience in the field they are critiquing. Makes me think of people who never had any children who tell parents how to raise kids. |
by darylehret on 11 May 2012 - 01:03 |
| Fair enough, I can agree with that. Or perhaps, a change in department policy to issue CORRECTIVE action like UNPAID leave accompanied with a public APOLOGY, and perhaps a FINE? |
by ggturner on 11 May 2012 - 01:09 |
| Good ideas daryl. |
by Gigante on 11 May 2012 - 14:59 | ||
If someone shoots a child for screaming at them and moving towards them fast. Is it your opinion that we would need to seek out a parent to see if that is proper behavior. Thats seems like a silly position to me. I can absolutely tell you that using a shovel to reprimand your child is wrong.
Back on Topic:
Harrisonburg Police Officer Accused of Killing Family Doghttp://www.whsv.com/news/headlines/Harrisonburg_Police_Officer_Accused_of_Killing_Family_Dog_150885025.html?ref=025 Topeka police officer shoots, kills dog http://cjonline.com/news/2012-05-07/topeka-police-officer-shoots-kills-dog | ||
by darylehret on 11 May 2012 - 16:01 |
| Oh, and additionally a number of hours of mandatory REPEAT TRAINING. Yes, I believe if there are CONSEQUENCES that affect the officer's involved, there would be a dramatic drop in the suspected incidences where it can truly be helped, where the shootings are needless and voluntary, where alternative actions are present. Fortunately, LEO's shooting dogs has never been a problem that I'm aware of in my surrounding communities. A dog is more likely to be shot for harassing livestock or chasing wild game where I live, not a common occurance, and I'd imagine mostly the undisputed responsibility of the dog owner. And if the owner is present at the time, it isn't legal to shoot a dog for chasing animals. The opportunity exists for the handler to get their dog under control. |
by momosgarage on 11 May 2012 - 16:25 |
Do all DA's, Lawyers and Judges have "boots on the ground" LEO experience? Yes some do, but at the end of the day most don't and these are the people that decide whether the action of an LEO is legal or not. Sorry but in court, civilians who may or may not be former LEO's, DO decide which action, critique or opinion is LEGAL. Also, as far as I know no one has spent the capital needed in civil court to make high penalties a true deterence for LEO departments across the nation. Second it would take a very gutsy DA to try and prosecute an LEO for something like animal cruelty, unlawful discharge of a weapon or similar.
I guess the statement, "You Can Beat The Wrap, But You Can't Beat The Ride" is true in many more ways than ONE; but in this case someones Pet can't beat LEO's acting as judge, jury and executioner.
Another thing that could be identified with an analysis of national data focusing on LEO's shooting Pets, is the relative financial affluence of a community versus the percentage of Pet shooting by LEO's. I'll bet the more affluent the community the less likely a Pet will be shot by an LEO. Once rich people show thier willingness to sue or pursue legal action, LEO's definately watch thier steps. Not to mention LEO's in affluent communities also are more likely to have cross training and a budget for continuing education. This would support the musings of Slamdunc and alboe2009, but would only hold true for LEO departments that are well off financially. Most Police and Sheriff departments across the nation are cash poor right now, so the training which Slamdunc and alboe2009 profuse to be common for LEO's would most likely be in the minority and not common in the recessionary period of 2008-2012. Coincidentally, we are also anecdotally seeing an increase in news reports involving Pet shootings during this very same recessionary period of 2008-2012. I also assume that diverse communites are also less likely to have Pets shot due to LEO's needing to actually pay attention to details when pursuing suspects. Which in these specific diverse communities, would require an LEO to not entirely base thier actions from racial profiling and/or other lazy investigation methods used by LEO's patroling low-income/non-diverse areas. Combine a finacially affluent community with cultural diversity and I'd bet my house that pet shootings would be very low or non-existant in such a community having the all the traits I mentioned above.
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by Gigante on 11 May 2012 - 20:56 | |||||||||
This 2001 article, Is still very accurate today. Police simply don't have to!
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by alboe2009 on 12 May 2012 - 00:19 |
| I'm AMAZED that so many can "pull" info from the internet. We have many issues going on in/with this thread. One of the biggest misleading one is the majority is generalizing, on many issues. It's nice, kind of cute, that some can honestly voice either the thought process of Slam and myself, able to comment or voice why we do what we do or say what we say. Do you honestly think the LEO in the back woods of Alabama has the training let alone the social, educated awareness of society, race and income levels? of say the LEO of LA or NY etc., etc. It's not even worth attempting to "enlighten" some because some have "tunnel vision" and some are jumping on that bandwagon to be heard. It's nice to bring forth an article or a news report saying this person did something wrong. Just as someone else can bring forth one saying someone did something right. Honestly, what does it prove? And it's a shame when someone doesn't add anything but as soon as they do, what little they really do and it's either full of negativity or accusation. GSD Admin, you pop in a few sentences but (at least for me), I didn't see the facts, article etc., The average everyday citizen doesn't have a clue what happens in their community. Honestly! They don't. They believe their little world/community is safe and genuinely a nice/good community. Not saying there aren't any, but when you're sleeping the real world is there. Where you're at work, the real world is there. So, when you say, that Slam or I condone, look the other way or by our job are forced to be silent....... about what the bad, if any, officers' action take place (I'll speak for me and my experience) I'll say you don't have a clue, I'll call you a liar and say you honestly don't know what you are talking about. I won't argue and if there's a problem then you can PM me. And when you say the officer's you have dealt with.......... Your attitude plays a major part of what experience you have dealing with LEOs. We all have our stories......... The AVERAGE citizen doesn't like a stranger telling them they did something wrong let alone fining or penalizing them for doing it. We could go on and on butting heads but as LEOs, we deal with the majority of "THIS" on a daily basis, DAILY. Also, for the situation with the homeless individual..... (and I don't know the facts of your story) But FYI, homeless people are one of the most dangerous to encounter; majority of homeless are either on some form of addiction, have a disease, mentally unstable or have a weapon(0ne, to protect themselves from their counterparts.) Pull up some stats or take a ride over to the DC Metro area and talk to folks about homeless individuals. A good percentage of those homeless people carry an edged weapon, usually a filet knife. Why? Do you know the type of damage a filet knife can do? So, it's kind of nice, NOT, to sit back on your farm or some other area where you're not touched by reality and try and comment on how a LEO needs to do their job. And for the poster who stated about DAs, Judges and courts, etc., having LEO experience? You're comparing Apples to Oranges. And that is an entire different conversation/debate. But a good percentage of Law Enforcement have problems with the Judicial System! That's why as a LEO you can't let it tear you apart when the judge or court takes your SOLID arrest and turns it into a joke and the scumbag walks or gets a lesser crime. But like I said, that's a whole nother ball of wax! |
by Rik on 12 May 2012 - 01:06 |
| Well damn, you done stepped on my toes now, I guess stereotypes do die hard. I will mention that most LE in my area of backwoods Alabama must have a minimum level of college to be considered. I would also like to point out that the rocket motors that sent the astronauts to the moon were being designed and built here in the backwoods long before your esteemed citizens of LA decided to burn the city down, over gasp, police brutality. go figure, Rik |
by Blitzen on 12 May 2012 - 01:12 |
Alboe, Gigante, BE, Daryl et al, what do you do to earn a living? |
by alboe2009 on 12 May 2012 - 01:38 |
| Hey, Hey.................. stepping on toes wasn't the intention. If I did I will be the first to apologize to you RIK. At times I'm not the most eloquent speaker. I have never visited CA due to thinking those people are just a little too much for me. I'm from the back woods of Michigan............................... and look where that state is now? Blitzen, for me; Left Law Enforcement for DoD, Explosive Detection Dog Handler, Civilian Contractor. Also, have a side work business: Carpentry/remodel/build (ALBOE2009: "A Little Bit Of Everything") |
by Rik on 12 May 2012 - 02:11 |
| Gomer and Goober Pyle as well as Forrest Gump are/were all Alabamians. How anyone could know this and still think we are backwoods is beyond me. Rik |
by darylehret on 12 May 2012 - 02:47 |
| Blitzen, I think both Jim and alboe would do everything in their power to avoid such an incident. And, the only things I recall disagreeing with was whether these incidences were indeed "rare", and that LEO's should continue to be held unaccountable. So, you want to scrutinize ME or my profession, because I have an opinion that differs from yours? |
by GSD Admin on 12 May 2012 - 04:58 |
| Alboe2009, None of my statements were directed in your way at all. I come from a family with several LE, but those officers are humble much like yourself. I generally like cops but have met a few that will lie, cheat and steal just like any career criminal. Like you I am not the best speaker in the world, I have long accepted that and my loved ones have accepted it. That is all that matters to me. I respect a good humble cop but not a bully who feels the need to lie to others that they should be showing respect to. It would be no different than an off duty officer going into a business and showing the management/owner their ass. No different at all. A badge is not a right to run over others you should be respecting and if you have a problem with that respect thing, you should just stay out of things you can't control and not show your ass, as doing so only makes you look the ass. Same here, we are in charge of the site whether you know who we are or not, whether you like it or not, it doesn't matter, a certain amount of respect is due the admins. Period, no excuses. Period. And frankly I don't see it from people who should know better and who demand that respect in their jobs, life and hobbies. No excuses. Here is a great little article. A cop goes to far. I love the quote highlighted in yellow it fits. http://www.copblock.org/ http://wtvr.com/2012/05/11/holmberg-vcu-pays-10000-for-improper-police-stop/ They just got $10,000 settlement check from the state for an alleged illegal traffic stop by a Virginia Commonwealth University police officer last spring. Cox, a libertarian who founded the Virginia branch of an organization called CopBlock.org, was driving his car on N. 7th Street downtown near the Coliseum last April when he passed a VCU police officer pulled over on the side of the road, talking with someone. Cox picked up his bullhorn and addressed the officer out of his window. “I simply turned my head and said, stop harassing people, we pay your paychecks.” Very quickly, the officer’s vehicle appeared in his rear view, emergency lights and siren activated, Cox said. He picked up the small video camera he keeps on hand. The officer, four-year veteran Shawn Kelley, approached the car on the video clip that Cox later downloaded to Youtube to chronicle his fight for what he sees as his Constitutional rights. “How are you doing sir?” Cox asks. “All right. How are we doing?” the officer responds. “Doing fantastic,” Cox says. The officer asks for Cox’s license and registration. “Can I ask why you pulled me?” Cox asks. “Yessir. For . . . ah . . . “ “Freedom of speech?” Cox asks. “You look like you were a little distracted driving,” the officer responds. Cox immediately asks for the officer’s supervisor to come to the scene, saying he didn’t believe the officer had probable cause to pull him over. The officer goes to his car and comes back with a citation for obstruction of justice. Cox says he won’t sign it until a supervisor comes. Eventually, a supervisor does come. A Freedom of Information Request filed in the case shows the officer calls the Commonwealth’s Attorney’s office during the wait. Cox is eventually charged with disorderly conduct. When the case went to traffic court “the initial judge found me guilty for quote-unquote being a jerk,” Cox recalled. They appealed it to Circuit Court. Tom Roberts, the attorney, said they didn’t even have to present any evidence. The judge heard the officer’s case and dismissed the charge. “The second judge was pretty reluctant to dismiss the charge,” Cox said. “But he said what I said was protected under the First Amendment.” Tom Roberts prepped a civil suit against the police department, but VCU settled out of court. Roberts said police officers have a badge and a gun – and a lot of power. “That requires him to not go after people because he doesn’t like what they have to say. He has that training. He knows that. In this case, the court found that’s what he did.” Nathan is a staunch libertarian, an army infantry veteran of the war in Iraq who got involved in watchdogging the police after he heard libertarian presidential candidate Ron Paul speak. Does he hate the police? “No, not at all,” he replied. “I do not hate the police. In fact, before I joined the Army in 2006, I was actually trying to become a police officer.” The settlement check went to cover Robert’s expenses. “It’s the principle that matters,” Cox said. “I hope the officer and the police department, and departments as a whole realize you might not like something that’s said to somebody, but you can’t pull people over for it . . . I hope they learned their lesson.” He said police officers have gone from being peace officers and protectors of the public, to aggressive fine collectors and enforcers of laws that don’t pass Constitutional muster. We left messages with officer Kelley and VCU’s police chief, but haven’t heard back from them. Nathan says CopBlock.org’s mission “is to hold police accountable, to also educate people on their rights, specifically when interacting with the police.” Roberts says the case is really simple; the police need probable cause to stop you and a perceived insult does not reach that threshold. “I don’t think you or anybody else would believe he would have chased this man down if he had yelled out of his window, ‘Hey, you’re doing a great job. Keep up the good work.’” Roberts said the officer involved was courteous throughout the traffic stop and he seemed like a nice guy. And he acknowledges not everyone could do the job. But anyone wanting to be an officer, Roberts added, “better make sure you’re trained, you better make sure you have the personality that can withstand a little verbal abuse and say, you know, that’s why I’m on these streets, protecting your freedom – your freedom to be disagreeable. And I may not like it, but you know, it’s bigger than you and me.” “The second judge was pretty reluctant to dismiss the charge,” Cox said. “But he said what I said was protected under the First Amendment.” Tom Roberts prepped a civil suit against the police department, but VCU settled out of court. Roberts said police officers have a badge and a gun – and a lot of power. “That requires him to not go after people because he doesn’t like what they have to say. He has that training. He knows that. In this case, the court found that’s what he did.” [Download the CBS 6 Breaking News App for your smartphone: Android | Blackberry | iPhone and iPad] Nathan is a staunch libertarian, an army infantry veteran of the war in Iraq who got involved in watchdogging the police after he heard libertarian presidential candidate Ron Paul speak. Does he hate the police? “No, not at all,” he replied. “I do not hate the police. In fact, before I joined the Army in 2006, I was actually trying to become a police officer.” The settlement check went to cover Robert’s expenses. “It’s the principle that matters,” Cox said. “I hope the officer and the police department, and departments as a whole realize you might not like something that’s said to somebody, but you can’t pull people over for it . . . I hope they learned their lesson.” He said police officers have gone from being peace officers and protectors of the public, to aggressive fine collectors and enforcers of laws that don’t pass Constitutional muster. We left messages with officer Kelley and VCU’s police chief, but haven’t heard back from them. Nathan says CopBlock.org’s mission “is to hold police accountable, to also educate people on their rights, specifically when interacting with the police.” Roberts says the case is really simple; the police need probable cause to stop you and a perceived insult does not reach that threshold. “I don’t think you or anybody else would believe he would have chased this man down if he had yelled out of his window, ‘Hey, you’re doing a great job. Keep up the good work.’” Roberts said the officer involved was courteous throughout the traffic stop and he seemed like a nice guy. And he acknowledges not everyone could do the job. But anyone wanting to be an officer, Roberts added, “better make sure you’re trained, you better make sure you have the personality that can withstand a little verbal abuse and say, you know, that’s why I’m on these streets, protecting your freedom – your freedom to be disagreeable. And I may not like it, but you know, it’s bigger than you and me. And finally this, does this make you feel all warm and fuzzy? Stupid cops shooting a restained dog, look at their piss poor training and we allow these people to carry guns? Someone needs to stop this. Cops get a a slap on the back, owner charged with whatever stupid charge to deflect the incompetence of the police. Poor dog. LEOs can you find a way to spin this one? http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/06/19/video-shows-missouri-cop-shooting-restrained-bulldog/ |
by alboe2009 on 12 May 2012 - 06:44 |
| GSD Admin, if none of the comments were directed towards Slam or my way then I'll stand corrected. For the first story, what information is present/available I totally agree with the citizen. Understand, that VA is a Common Wealth State; governed by Common Law. But in MD ( and can't remember if I seen an incident described on the PDB recently or on MSN? But in MD "Disturbing the Peace can not "take place if only two individuals are present, one being the on duty Police Officer. The way our law is written is that the LEO, on duty, is "not in the picture Per Se", as a citizen/complainant. Now if a third party, (not another on duty LEO) is present and he/she complains then "Disturbing the Peace" can be charged. Some need to realize that no matter how some laws seem, or even if they are/appear to be stupid/ridiculous is that the LEOs didn't make it, the law(s), but we/they are bound by oath/duty to take action. Now, situation dictates and there is "Officer Discretion" but a good LEO won't let that bite him/her in the ass. What information was presented, I can't speak for the VCU Officer but personally have no idea what his PC was for initiating the traffic stop. There are a few other questions that come to mind but won't do any good to bring them forward. The second story, the video............. You probably won't like my response but without knowing ALL the facts, mine had no audio so that missing piece could be vital. It would appear that the video is the dash cam? A few questions come to mind and I'll play "Devil's Advocate"; Are these in fact the Police or Animals Control? We don't know the "Call for service"?, did the dog bite or attack someone and that is why the Police were called? There are so many "unknowns". It would "appear" that Officer #1 is talking on the phone and since he is doing it "during" the incident I would presume he is getting direction from a Supervisor. If we had audio we would know more than just what we are seeing. With out knowing all the facts, the rules, regulations and policies of that Department we can't really say anymore. I'm not agreeing or condoning what appears to be happening but there is more to the story. Is the dog rabid? There are a lot of questions here? |







