Main > Keeping Your Dog Safe from Law Enforcement (303 replies)
by ggturner on 27 April 2012 - 22:54
From the ASPCA:
Police rarely receive any training that would allow them to rapidly and realistically assess the degree of danger posed by a dog; nor are they routinely informed about or trained to use any of the wide variety of non-lethal tools and techniques available to them as alternatives to shooting. Examples of such alternatives include batons, OC spray, Tasers and chemical capture. Most departments do not have relationships with area animal control agencies, humane societies or SPCAs that could provide training or assistance in responding to calls where dogs are known or suspected to be present. Since more than one-third of American households have a dog, officers are likely to encounter dogs whenever they approach or enter a residence. Although they may encounter truly dangerous dogs in some situations, the majority of dogs they are likely to meet are well-behaved family pets that are legitimately protecting their homes and families from intruders.
I think training LEOs would be beneficial, but I don't think that training has to take place at animal control. A seminar makes more sense.
by alboe2009 on 28 April 2012 - 03:05
|I'll comment once or twice and I'm sure , (or at least hope) a couple of others will chime in. Unfortunately MOST not all, but most are comparing oranges to apples here and I know that this topic will escalate again as in the past. First, like the one poster stated; You could have 100 good/positive instances/situations/scenarios take place and one bad/not positive instance take place and what will be noticed? That's just the nature of the beast/comes with the job.|
My first couple of days in the Academy and a couple of things took place; Our first day we were watching certain videos, "Surviving Edge Weapons" and some others. Attacks/documented on LEOs across the nation. During some of the bloodiest parts certain individuals were getting sick, throwing up. Guess what? Their first day was their last day. That is just one example.
For three or four individuals, it's a shame you are so ? Anti-Police, for whatever reason(s) but mostly it appears personal. I would tell my arrestees, "Don't take it personally, it's just me doing my job. But believe me, if you were screaming for help tomorrow I would help you as easily and as fast as I arrested you today" Each individuals, as a LEO brings to the table some of their individualism. We/they are not robots. Some want to be the BEST, the best ever. Some are there for a paycheck. That is human nature; In any job.
It's nice to sit on the sidelines and say how you believe the game to be played. Just like it's nice to sit on the side lines and talk of how the war(s) should be fought. Those are just opinions unfortunately. Some are not on the field or fighting the wars. We can continue to butt heads (human nature also) but each situation has facts only pertaining to that situation. What worked here might not work there. For the poster Lady wolf, (I think that is her Avatar) bottom line is a situation that ended on a positive note due to many factors. NOT, just that the LEO was a K9 Officer.
A neighboring County SWAT team raided a "wrong" address, happened to be the Mayor's house to a town within the County. Shot his dog also. Breaking down the situation, there are (for sake of conversation) 50 pieces of intel put together before a raid is initiated. ( First, let's say....... there is protocol for most if not all actions, tried and true for years) Things are not PERFECT but things are for the most part the the best for all the contributing factors involved.
So, it's kind of MUTE to try and explain to most, or even have most understand if they are not familiar with such, KEY WORD IS MOST! It would be impossible to comment on each poster's comment but I'll say this much; For the ASPCA I guess it's either a Public Comment or maybe on their Website but for our Agency, County or Geographical area that whole paragraph is totally wrong. We worked hand in hand with AC, we had/used numerous nonlethal weapons, all the ones listed and bean bag shotguns and more. When we responded to locations, if their was a "history" for being at that residence it was noted and the Officer was informed prior to arrival. If there was/were problems with dogs, (or even people) it was NOTED in the "remarks section" for Officers prior to arrival. So for ASPCA to make that comment, totally absurd!
For the training aspect, understand that there is training for LOTS of things, LOTS. And with this training comes a cost. We can't train for every situation that arises to a LEO. It doesn't work like that, (I know certain individuals would think so but in all honesty/reality it doesn't) That should be enough for now to get some responses going......
by darylehret on 28 April 2012 - 05:42
|Intel piece #51: Do we have the right house?|
Ha ha, I just had to say it. I know you think that I'm one of your 3 or 4 people mentioned, but the fact is I'm acquainted with several LEO's locally, and I respect and get along with all of them. Nice post. But now I have to ask, do you think it's important for LEO's to be better educated and experienced in ALL situations they are likely to encounter?, because it seems you think they have more than enough on their plate to be bothered with it. I mean, there could be some basic but very important skills learned in a very short course of time. It could easily pay itself off just having avoided one single bad PR incident, right?
by BabyEagle4U on 28 April 2012 - 15:38
FYI alboe2009, I am NOT anti-police.
by Ninja181 on 28 April 2012 - 15:51
|20 or 30 years ago I don't ever remember hearing about law enforcement shooting people's pets.|
But 20 or 30 years ago there wasn't the gangs and drug house issues like we have today. Also years ago people weren't sending pit bulls after law enforcement either. Law enforcement wasn't dealing with people all coked-up and completely out of their gourds. So times have changed.
I just don't want to read about a dead family dog on a routine visit to a single family home that is not loaded with prior convicted felons. Amen
by BabyEagle4U on 28 April 2012 - 16:11
Ninja, this doesn't have to even pertain to criminals.
by Gigante on 28 April 2012 - 16:42
This topic does always seem's to head to a NWA song. LEO & LEO cheerleaders being as much at fault as an arm chair quarterback. Its counter productive and suck's. You wont find an LEO admitting (publicly) that its pervasive policy all across the US to just shoot our pets. Not shoot every dog like some have suggested, ridiculously. My willy nilly comment refers to shoot, claim threat and no foul no matter what.
That puts us and our pets directly in a us against you. We should thank you for this? Just like you, we have a Responsibility to protect our family and pets from all threat. I cant see this being a good road to drive down. Its beneficial not to use lethal force unless its necessary.
The whole good cop bad cop thing should go down the toilet, with this discussion, its not relevant. Public policy and wispered policy is relevant. Having respect for life is relevant. Not killing something we love without a damn good reason is relevant.
Not wanting to learn how to deal with something without using lethal force, that you will encounter just about daily is very, very relevant.
by alboe2009 on 29 April 2012 - 01:31
|I'll try and comment first to those that it appears are directing comment/questions to me.|
To you Darylehret; My intentions are not to butt heads with you on every or most every topic/subject. That's not who I am. Yes, you are one of the three/four subjects mentioned. It is what it is. I, for the most part, pick my words very carefully before I speak and try to look at the situation/incident with a 360 approach. my thoughts are that at times you don't; Your first and second sentence are my point. (Honestly, you did not have to say that)
We have to make an honest, I repeat HONEST ATTEMPT to imagine what a day in the life of a LEO entails. The cliche of "every day is a different day" is so so true! I used to tell my officers on FTO that you don't need to be a 200# individual to pull the trigger on a weapon, point being a senior citizen who has lost everything dear to him and feels no reason to live (wants to die by "suicide by cop") and on a traffic stop tries to kill you. And we could suggest 50 other scenarios that are real life. My first Department two 10 year olds had weapons in a gym bag hidden under a vehicle and when my Field Training Officer and I jumped out of the vehicle to snatch them, (drugs), they dove under the vehicle to grab them. My mind didn't register that a couple of ten year olds wanted to shoot us, (let alone had the balls to attempt it) but depends on the area your working, it is there!
Daryl, your choice of words (at times); "... because it seems you think they have more on their plate to be bothered with it". There can never be a educated/experienced LEO in ALL situations. In reality, it's just not possible. EXPERIENCE only comes from experiencing the experience in question and repetiton in that experience. Prime Example: My first Department was in a SHI^^ole place, rock and rolling non-stop. Experience wise it was great. But the crimes were real, top of the line crimes; Murders, shootings, stabbings, large amounts of drugs, car jackings, B & Es. Raids, and all these crimes daily/nightly. We are raiding places with multiple Pitts chained near entrances and roaming inside. One place had Caymans roaming inside, 5-6 footers! We had crimes where parents killed subjects for messing with their underage daughters, (who had keys to subjects apartment) Parents strung this guy up and with his blood wrote on the walls of his place," This is what you get ***** ****** for messing with my daughter!" I had 36 arrests in my first 6 mos. But guess what, I never dealt with DUI/DWIs so I was inexperienced in those and some of the lesser crimes. We would show up for work and 15/20 calls were "holding" for us. (That means there are so many calls for service that the officers can't get to them and oncoming shift has to pick them up as soon as they come through the door PLUS handle theirs that will happen. Depending on the workload, area, geographical area, crimes, (Part I/IIs) manpower, training, funding, MORAL and a lot of other factors some things are not feasible to "train for".
I try and tell people that you could have ten Doctors/PhD's lined up. Doesn't mean that they are all great or even at the same level of expertise.
BE, I don't recall stating that you were? My comment stems from many threads since I have joined..... Good point(s) Ninja! Also, what many fail to realize was 20/30/40 years ago Law Enforcement Officers were coming from the military and probably no shorter than 6' or less than 200#. And you didn't back talk or even disrespect them. (I remember our Police Officer in High School). And BE, your last post I'm not familiar with the facts or the cases so I can't comment.
Gigante, how is it that you know of this pervasive policy to shoot homeowners pets? And I have never seen this policy or heard of it and for the most of my adult life have worn the badge?? I can see why other LEO/Public Safety personnel are disappointed or have a "why bother attitude". But as a Military individual I wanted to educate non-military personnel/civilians and as a former LEO I wanted/want to educate civilians also.
by BabyEagle4U on 29 April 2012 - 03:10
by Gustav on 29 April 2012 - 17:32
|When you argue with a fool from afar.....its hard to tell who is who!!!!|
by Blitzen on 29 April 2012 - 19:52
|Move to FL if you want to be able to protect your own property. Better hurry though, the Stand Your Ground law is under scrutiny.|
by beetree on 29 April 2012 - 21:25
|I've discussed this before with dear ones, since I'm a barefoot kind of girl, I'll never take to a place that has fireants. I'll come visit.|
by Blitzen on 29 April 2012 - 21:57
|LOL, Bee, I hear you. Almost 3 weeks ago we took some GSD's swimming in a canal on the Gulf. I got into a hill of fireants (was wearing sandals) and the bites are just now healed Now I wear sneakers most of the time.|
They ain't called "fire"ants for nuthin'.
by Slamdunc on 30 April 2012 - 01:17
|Perhaps these people would disagree with some of the posts on this thread?|
Obviously these Officers and every Officer I know did not get Gigante's memo in roll call.
by beetree on 30 April 2012 - 10:56
|The ending of the dog stuck in the fence was hysterical....just sayin'...... (YouTube link)|
by alboe2009 on 01 May 2012 - 16:06
by BabyEagle4U on 01 May 2012 - 18:53
by BabyEagle4U on 01 May 2012 - 18:56
by BabyEagle4U on 01 May 2012 - 19:21
Bear - Bear
by ggturner on 01 May 2012 - 19:24
|BE--are these dogs that were killed by LEOs? : (|