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ForumsTraining and Obedience > Why train to have GSD look at you during a Heel? (38 replies)
Why train to have GSD look at you during a Heel? by fawndallas on 16 April 2012 - 02:35 |
| I have been watching a number of demo videos on triained GSD and I have a question. Why are the dogs trained to watch the person's face while in a heel? This would seem like that would be a bit difficult on the person as the dog is walking so close they seem to be under foot. I am working with my girl on heel and I am too off balance to have her walk this close. Is this just a requirement for show or is there a pratical purpose for this? |
fawndallas by magdalenasins on 16 April 2012 - 20:53 |
| I asked this question forever ago and can't remember the answer. I am not positive it is required in any obedience just that the dog be attentive to you and close by but I could be totally off the mark. It definitely looks flashy. |
by brynjulf on 16 April 2012 - 22:11 |
| It looks fancy, but the judges have had enough of this look. They are starting to ding people for extremes in this area. Especially on dogs who look like they are anticipating the "sitz". Having the dogs head wrapped around the knee looks just as flashy and not so unnatural :) |
by fawndallas on 16 April 2012 - 22:24 |
| That is what I was thinking. Thanks for the weigh in. |
by EUROSHEPHERDS on 18 April 2012 - 03:07 |
In order to have have a great OB, team has to have some kind of contact with each other either with leash or body contact or eye contact otherwise OB falls apart and dog will be all different places .All the forging and crabbing falling behind ,etc comes from bad training and since at higher level you can not use leash or body contact the only thing left is good old eye contact . |
by Chaz Reinhold on 18 April 2012 - 04:00 |
| Decades ago, some ass wipe came out to a trial and the judge liked it. He got more points than the others. They went home and worked on it. Other judges liked it. It isn't practical for anything in real life. Just look at protection. You'll lose points if your dog looks at you in the transports, even though you are heeling. Hell, they can't look at you during the h &b, escape, guard, etc. |
Chaz Reinhold by brynjulf on 18 April 2012 - 04:32 |
| Thanks Chaz, this old broad darn near choked to death laughing.... I just pictured some documentary fella starting off "decades ago..... " O my I can not stop laughing :) |
by Sunsilver on 18 April 2012 - 14:52 |
| A dog has this thing called 'peripheral vision'. Because its eyes are set more to the sides of the head than ours are, it is fully capable of looking more or less straight ahead, and still being able to watch its handler with one eye. If its head is wrapped around the handler's leg, and it is looking the handler right in the eyes, the damn dog can't even see where its going... [agrees with Chaz about the asswipe who thought it looked flashy to heel this way....] |
Sunsilver by VKGSDs on 18 April 2012 - 20:27 |
| I disagree that judges are going to ding people for eye contact in heeling. If a dog is not in correct position, then that has always been faulty heeling. A dog can heel in correct position while making eye contact and not be forging, wrapping, crowding, etc. Those things are wrong regardless of where the dog is looking. What is now getting dinged is the topline not remaining steady, so dogs that are bouncing or rearing up while heeling or dogs that are so collected they are scooting/sitting their butt as they go. |
VKGSDs by brynjulf on 18 April 2012 - 20:51 |
| VKGSD they are NOT correcting the dogs for eye contact. They will be dinging for the head straight upright and back at the heel. It is in the rule changes for 2012. The head must remain "natural". edited to correct it states to remain nature for the breed being ehibited...whatever that means.... |
by GSDguy08 on 19 April 2012 - 13:03 |
| I wander....if there was a tree coming up....just at the spot the person wouldn't walk into it, but the dog would.....would most of these dogs walk into the tree? I've never understood the point of focused heeling like that. My youngest Husky can do it a little bit, but we haven't worked on it in some time. |
GSDguy08 by Sunsilver on 19 April 2012 - 14:55 |
GSD Guy, if you wander, no wonder you dog is running into trees...  [sorry, couldn't resist!] |
by GSDguy08 on 19 April 2012 - 16:37 |
| Oh, no Sunsilver, it's not my dog running into trees, it's me.....duh! lol |
by myret on 20 April 2012 - 08:44 |
| a that can keep drive and hold his head up for an entire programme , first its looks alot better than a dog that is not looking at his handler or I like a dog that holds his head straight up the naturel way look boring and looks like drive for the work is missing http://www.dogs-tv.de/mediadetails.php?key=85c1ab2f6490c4ac5c06&title=Daniela+Heidrich+mit+Exanja+v.+Waldh%C3%A4user+Schloss-B http://www.mohnwiese-team.de/Sonstige%20Hunde%20Videos/ExanjaB.wmv but again its a matter of personel like |
myret by brynjulf on 20 April 2012 - 20:49 |
| I wonder how many points you will actually lose for doing that with the new rules? Anyone know how many points the judges are supposed to deduct for that now? |
by Peter Cho on 20 April 2012 - 22:37 |
| The quality of training is ever evolving to a higher level. If you don't evolve you get run over. So if there are two competitors and everything being equal, but one heels perfectly straight, with no forging, and with intense attention, who do you think will win? Another thing about attention is absolutely true in dog training. Where the dog's eyes are, is what it is thinking about. When I say "foose" I demand attention, not look around and once in awhile look at me when I say something. Foose is not a request. Also, if you don't have attention, since ALL exercises include, sit, attention, straight position, you are never going to make. Foundation. Foundation. Foundation. As my training director would say, you spend 80% on basics. 20% on everything else. I would say 90%. Some say it is not necessary. ASK any high level competitor. |
Peter Cho by myret on 22 April 2012 - 09:07 |
| brynjulf it gets the points here with an attentive dog does not cost any points and it looks good |
by brynjulf on 22 April 2012 - 18:46 |
| Used to get the points here as well ( Canada) Where Peter and I train. We have had a rule change as of 2012 regarding the heel position but no one seems to know how many points will be deducted. It will be interesting if the judges deduct or not. |
by myret on 22 April 2012 - 19:29 |
| whats the new rule ???? |
by brynjulf on 22 April 2012 - 21:03 |
| I'm trying to find it for you Myret. But all I have found is the internet jibber jabber and not an actual copy of the rule clarification. I'll keep looking as I am trialling 6 this year and must know how the rule will affect our scores. |
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