Search forum
Back to Main
Liked top 20
ForumsMain > Curious why so many embrace the DM DNA test? (149 replies)
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 14:16 |
| Gwenith will not know that her dog has DM as long as it's alive.That will be determined at PM. There are other conditions/diseases that mimic DM and, as we've been told time and time again, DM must be diagnosed post mortem. |
Blitzen by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 14:36 |
| The DM DNA test was released 4 years ago. Not one scientific new information has been published since then. We still do not have a way to confirm living dogs with DM. But I am certain brain MRI, showing changes in the brain would be a in the right direction. They do MRI's of the spine to rule out to this day. Which still does not confirm DM. At this day and age I fund it horrific misuse of grants and funds not to have discovered a full proof way of confirming DM in a living dog. I certainly believe the brain changes that would be seen in a MRI of the brain would be step in right direction. There is no doubt with every single neurological disease the brain shows significant changes. Why no research is pursuing this avenue is beyond me. Other they must really not be interested in getting to the bottom of a actual diagnosis. That of course is not a cure but it sure we nice to have it confirmed. The DM DNA test does not do that. Gwen |
by beetree on 10 April 2012 - 15:47 | |
Really? They answer to you, I bet. I'd like to see a picture of your stricken dog, to see if you are telling the truth. I have my doubts. | |
beetree by SummertimeGSD on 10 April 2012 - 16:56 |
| "At this day and age I fund it horrific misuse of grants and funds not to have discovered a full proof way of confirming DM in a living dog." Guess we should have a cure for cancer and AIDS by now then too! As well as a fool proof way of eliminating Dysplasia. |
by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 17:25 |
| That is exactly what I am saying. Any test is fallible. And I believe in all my heart my dog has DM. For a long time I thought gee he has something else as he came back "carrier" and not at risk. Until recently when I contacted Dr. Liz Hansen who informed me 2 GSD's who had "carrier" status have come back with confirmed DM upon necropsy. The progression my Blade has taken is classic DM. While it is in spinal cord, the spinal cord relays messages to the brain. I have no doubt that brain MRI would show changes in DM dogs in advanced stages. I have talked to UC Davis today. That said that is being looked at. I don't think genes are the answer. They are starting point, but they don't nor won't confirm DM in any breed. Even with symptoms. There is still only one way to confirm DM and that is via necropsy. Many of the "rule out tests" ate highly invasive in an older dog. Especially a dog with heart condition, in which his cardiologist told me last October he had no business being alive. That 90% of dogs with his heart condition have already gone. Her next matter of fact statement was your dog has DM. I told her not according to the Coates test as he was just a "carrier". She looked at me, like right, we will see. Gwen |
by Abby Normal on 10 April 2012 - 17:55 |
| OK, here we go again. My patience is thin, I lost a very dear dog friend recently to DM, not my dog but one I was extremely close to and loved like my own and it is still raw. I have also lost one of my own to it in the past. There is no exclusivity here in having, or having had a dog with DM, it's no club anyone wants to be in, so lets level that playing field right now. Firstly Marj, it is disingenous to suggest that all other avenues of research into DM have ceased. We know for one that DOGenes are exploring one right now. UofM are still continuing their research. There are and will be others. Secondly I was on the UofM site a while back and it did mention the two carriers, and that these cases were being investigated if my memory serves me (and it doesn't always). I think that was also mentioned on the DSUrber thread, so let's not go the conspiracy theory route that they are hiding information, I think you will find that is incorrect too. Also Gwenith I find your ideas a little odd. The brain is the 'organ' that receives the messages transmitted along spinal cord (stated very basically). It is the degeneration of the sheath around the spinal cord and the subsequent damage that interrupts/prevents the messages reaching the brain. Therefore there is no sound logic to the argument that the brain itself should show any changes. Maybe someone is looking into it, but I would have thought it remote that it will yield anything worthwhile BUT, I wouldn't suggest they shouldn't look, in the same way I wouldn't be suggesting that people shouldn't use the current DM test. It may not be perfect yet. Until something better comes along why not use it? It may yet prove to be at least part of the puzzle. I would want to go for a DM tested dog. If others don't that is their choice. I find it disturbing that people want to discourage testing without any sound alternative. |
Abby Normal by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 18:29 |
| How do I about posting photos of my dog. The person said he/she had doubts. I am disturbed at how many extremely heartless people are around. While my dog slowly dies. I will Post photos. But since it is well know DM and other diseases mimic each other I don't know how a photo will confirm DM. I never said not to test. I tested all 3 of my dogs. I said it is full proof. And I feel there are clears that may not really be clear in GSD world. But I personally can not endure the mean nature posted by several here. Especially whoever said they had their doubts??? I was instantly attacked by several. And I was not attacking anyone here. Tell me how to post a photo via IPhone ONLY. I do not use lap tops or computers. Gwen |
by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 18:54 |
| My logic of brain MRI goes hand in hand with Dr. Coates saying it is ALS. Neurologist know there are brain changes in humans with ALS. If they want to claim it to be ALS in dogs then it should be no problem to do MRI of brain. If the brain is no longer gettin signal needed due to Spinal deterioation then it should show up. It absolutely shows brain changes in all patients with MS. I know I have spoken to my neurologist about brain MRI. They don't order spinal MRI's in humans with theses diseases. The neurologist order brain MRI's. Any of you have neurological disorders? I do. My family does. Gwen |
by Abby Normal on 10 April 2012 - 20:23 |
| There is no question that the brain is not receiving the signal, and so yes that could be 'measured', but how does that help. In confirming DM in a living dog - is that what you mean? There are not always brain changes in patients with ALS: The physician may order magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), a noninvasive procedure that uses a magnetic field and radio waves to take detailed images of the brain and spinal cord. Although these MRI scans are often normal in patients with ALS.... And MS seems rather more complicated: One of the limitations of using MRI in patients with MS is the discordance occurring between lesion location and the clinical presentation. In addition, depending on the number and location of findings, MRI can vary greatly in terms of sensitivity and specificity in the diagnosis of MS. This is especially true of primary progressive MS, which may not show the classic discrete lesions of relapsing-remitting MS. Having said that, as I said before, I would welcome any and all research into DM, however unlikely it would seem on the face of it, and would be the first to applaud a definitive answer to prevent and eliminate permanently such a tragic disease. I am truly sorry for any dog and owner who is having to endure it. |
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 20:38 |
| Currently a vet in FL is conducting a DM trial. He studied under Clemmons. I think I've heard of at least 2 other studies that are currently under way or in the planning stages not including the ones mentioned above by Abby. |
by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 20:57 |
| Yes hopefully in confirming DM in living dogs. I too am truly sorry for all those living this disease. My dog was the best athlete you could ever meet. Now we drag him around by a harness. He has his wheelchair for outside. But isn't in it daily. I just had my hip replaced. I love him more than mine own life. If I could trade aces with him I would. I would love to have the money to help with funding. Every day I pray for more days to cherish. Gwen |
by Abby Normal on 10 April 2012 - 21:44 |
| Gwenith, every one of us who has or had a dog with DM feels just the same. I saw a lady just this morning on the way to work putting her GSD into his/her cart in the car park at the local park. Sometimes it just doesn't feel helpful to attack and undermine what we do have currently albeit not perfect, though time is still going to tell with it. There are other ongoing projects and we must wait and hope for further developments, as we must for so many other diseases of the GSD. I too wish that I had millions I could splash around to fund my 'pet' research projects, or those that I thought had the most merit, but sadly I haven't. I hope you have many more days to cherish as I wish all those currently with DM dogs. Meanwhile, please don't discourage others from testing their dogs. Even if the test proves to be flawed, the more that are tested means the more data available that will prove the veracity of the current test eventually. |
by marjorie on 10 April 2012 - 21:55 |
| other researchers are having trouble getting dna samples because they are all being sent to U of M from neurologists. The ofa finally made a change to their dm explanation page, where they finally seem to be acknowledging that DM of one breed might not be the same DM as another breed.
|
marjorie by beetree on 10 April 2012 - 22:30 |
| No picture. No apology necessary. Being skeptical is not equal to being cruel. Au contraire. Marjorie you are distraught, it is evident. I will give you that. Stop trying to make this personal against me. |
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 23:31 |
| I hope you have many more days to cherish as I wish all those currently with DM dogs. Meanwhile, please don't discourage others from testing their dogs. Even if the test proves to be flawed, the more that are tested means the more data available that will prove the veracity of the current test eventually Abby has said it much better than I could have. What's the purpose of discouraging participation in studies that could help the breed in the future? The DNA test is non-invasive, reasonably priced, and is not intended to eliminate any dogs from a breeding program. What is this really about? |
by marjorie on 11 April 2012 - 00:01 |
| Its about the truth- the whole truth and nothing but the truth. What it is not about is politics, deception. ego and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Marjorie http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry BE PROACTIVE! http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group |
by marjorie on 11 April 2012 - 00:02 |
| Beetree, In another thread you asked me for info. It never would have crossed my mind to question if you REALLY had an ill dog or ask for proof. I am sorry, that is just horrid to me, and I do think it is cruel and not nice. Marjorie http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry BE PROACTIVE! http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group |
by beetree on 11 April 2012 - 00:13 |
| My dogs' picture is there, his suffering evident. I am sure you know that. I don't know why people want to come on this site and try to minimize any test or effort by any researcher to find an answer to this horror. That is mind boggling, I agree. Not everyone is truthful unfortunately, and it isn't too much to ask, from the one who is leading the charge, to see if they are riding the right horse. |
by marjorie on 11 April 2012 - 00:35 |
| People once thought the world was flat, but it wasnt, was it....The DNA DM Test, in relation to the GSD is akin to the world is flat. I cannot encourage people to contiunue to believe the world is flat when I know it isnt. Marjorie http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry BE PROACTIVE! http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group |
by beetree on 11 April 2012 - 00:37 |
| How do you go about finding funders Marjorie? I am curious. |
Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!