Main > Curious why so many embrace the DM DNA test? (149 replies)
Curious why so many embrace the DM DNA test?
by Gwenith on 09 April 2012 - 23:08
|I'm am very curious why so many people seem to have blindly embraced the DM DNA test that Dr. Coates has. It makes little sense to me knowing ALL the failures of our own FDA for humans. Constantly medications and devices are pulled form the shelves. And yet Coates and her team can do no wrong in the AKC dog world. I find this mind boggling at best. And then not one new publication since 2009. Not zip about the 2 carrier GSD's that have come back with confirmed DM. Oh, BTW, has anyone read it is highly unlikely a carrier will have DM. How many more out there that their owners didn't have the ability to necropsy? Or lived in some remote area where necropsy of spinal tissue not available? I live in Austin, Texas. And have written to Dr. Liz Hansen on the team pleading for a name of a Vet in my area that will be able to confirm DM after my beloved Blade goes to the bridge. Thus far not a single reply back. And a patent on this test? A patent means money is involved. When money is involved there is almost always corruption as well. Having lived through DePuy ARS recall and having to have revision surgery I know all to well about corruption, money and how the system often doesn't work for innocent victims. Our breeds and dogs are suffering at the hands of this research. If they have nothing to hide why doesn't their web page include the 2 "carrier" GSD's confirmed with DM and now a possible "clear" GSD with confirmed DM. The Univ. of Missouri should include ALL new findings like this. Either quarterly or at least every 6 months. Obviously they have something to conceal, IMO. Gwen|
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 00:05
The Coates test is optional. Test your dogs, don't test your dogs. Your decision. There are plenty of novices who won't know enough to ask and enough who don't think the test is valid. Ergo, no shortage of buyers for dogs from untested stock. I opted to test my dog and would not buy a dog from untested parents. Others are free to do as they wish.
by marjorie on 10 April 2012 - 00:28
| please see http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/forum.read?mnr=169816&pagen=4 scroll down to you get to dsurber post- clear dog, necropsied DM, confirmed by 2 of coates pathologists... so now we have 2 carries and 1 clear that are known about. I have seen no reference to any of these dogs on the U of M webpage in the DM DNA section. Interesting, very interesting... One would think one would be open and honest about the information of which they have been notified, if they really cared about the truth, and not just the patents and the $$$$$$$$. Oh well...actions speak far louder than words, IMHO.|
SOD1= 2% change in relation to als... repeat after me... casual or causual, casual, causual.... C'mon- its a whopping 2 % for cripes sake :( That means not present in 98% of the cases. Last but not least, not just *DM*, which is a catch-all phrase (which all breeds get in one form or another) but specifically, GSDM, aka GERMAN SHEPHERD DM and there is a world of difference between the two.....
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 01:02
|I agree Majorie! I now find this test deceptive and with an agenda. And the agenda is not in the best interest of dogs. Particularly not GSD's. But if there is a mistake with the GSD, there is mistake with many other highly at risk breeds. Too many people were to quick to embrace a test over genetics. And genetics is the newest kid on the block in medical research. Just another big problem in the makings. Especially with a breed like the GSD with 51 inherited diseases linked to it. Like EPI, SIBO, ventricular arrhythmia, elipepsy and the list goes on and on. Too many to even begin to list. Suffice to say this is a disaster in the making. People will be crying soon. But not nearly soon enough if they can't see the writing on the wall. Concealing is not sometime honest researchers do. And that is precisely what IS occurring. Otherwise the info of the 2 carrier GSD's and the one "clear" would be published for the world to see. But it is not being published it is being hidden. Pretty dishonest the way I see it. And all for $$$$$ and a name! Gwen|
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 01:15
This reeks of BS. Test, don't test, up to you.
by marjorie on 10 April 2012 - 01:27
| I am sorry the health of the breed is BS to you. Personally, to me, it wouldnt bother me a whit to purchase a pup from a litter sired or dam(N)ed by at an risk dog. The Test is what is BS! What does it matter if a GSD tests at risk for a type of DM another breed gets, but not ours??? Thats how little faith I have in the test. The at risk status of a GSD tested with the OFA U of M wouldnt bother me a bit- and if Missie T has more time than next week, it will be a miracle.|
by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 01:34
|My dog has been tested as "carrier". I plan to have him necropsied. Something I don't want to do. But since this DM DNA test is being so fully embraced I will necropsy. As hard as it will be to consider emotionally. His neurologist that was at TAMU with Dr. Coates said he had DM. His internist says he definately has DM. And now his regular Vet has admitted she feels he has DM. Gwen|
by Rik on 10 April 2012 - 02:21
|Let's stop hip certification also. After all, normal dogs can still develop it later in life and can certainly produce it. So what's the use in trying.|
Maybe some care enough to use the tools at their disposal, even if not 100% perfect.
by Nans gsd on 10 April 2012 - 02:21
|Well this post reeks of bullshit; if you have never experienced a dog with DM and it's ravaging deterioration then you are in for such a devastating journey. I hope you all can handle it, as it is hell on the dogs. BOL Nan|
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 02:30
Ditto Rik and Nans. The BS is not about the health of the breed.
by Mindhunt on 10 April 2012 - 02:35
Why bother testing for DM at all? The above pictures of Loki symptom free and the day before he was euthanized for DM symptoms should be one hell of an example of why bothering to test is important.
by SummertimeGSD on 10 April 2012 - 02:42
|Just because the test is not specifically for what people refer to as GSDM, it doesn't mean that they can't ALSO get the other form of DM that the test looks for that other breeds can get as well.|
by V L A on 10 April 2012 - 02:57
The Silent Killer of Dogs -
we need your help...
Not only is it our obligation for the betterment of the breed to do this SIMPLE SALIVA INEXPENSIVE DNA test, its a necessity, or it will spread like a cancer through all our dogs and destroy our breed.
Ck these OFA Stats! and look at the stats for the Pembroke Wells Corgi, the breed MOST affected by DM. (92%) That can and will happen to the German Shepherd dog if you don't DEMAND this testing from the breeders, or simply tell them you will not purchase a dog from them!
German Shepherd Dog stats tested dogs 644
Understanding the DNA Test for Degenerative Myelopathy
Here the very well explained graph of results from VETDNACENTER when all progeny is tested from one litter of a certain combination, thus even when an At Risk parent is bred to a Carrier Parent, the result can still be 50% or half of the pups born are clear (fortunately) However, the other half will be at risk and not worth the chance to take for any caring and careful breeder.
On the other hand, if a breeder has a top rated male or female which tested AT RISK, (do not panic) then when bred to a NORMAL mate only, this combination will only produce CARRIER offspring, thus this offspring can then be bred to a NORMAL mate, test ALL offspring and choose pups which tested NORMAL only for furthering the breeding program and thereby the breeder can quickly breed out DM in its entirety.
I WAS TOLD TO TEST FOR DM BY A FEW BREEDER FRIENDS, SO I LOOKED WHAT DM WAS ALL ABOUT AND FOUND THIS INFO!!!
AFTER READING THIS I HAVE STARTED TESTING BY FUTURE BREEDING STOCK!
I ALSO HAD A FEW PEOPLE CALL FROM MY LAST PDB PUPPIES FOR SALE ADD, THEY ASKED IF I HAD CLEAR DM, AT THE TIME I HAD NO IDEA WHAT DM WAS< NOW THAT I KNOW, I WILL BE A RESPONSIBLE BREEDER AS WELL!
by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 03:21
|I do not understand what reeks of BS? My dog has DM! But according to the test he does not have DM as no carrier can get DM. At least that is what was published in 2008. Now it has changed since 2 carrier GSD's and 1 clear have come back with confirmed DM. I watch my beloved dog decline daily. It is heartbreaking. I am not sure what is being implied that reeks of BS. My heart aches daily. DM is most likely like HD in that it IS polygenetic! Not a single gene. Aunts, Uncles, brothers, sisters, grandparents and so on have to be traced. It took years to lower the incidence of HD. And ALL of my dogs siblings had HD. Even though both patents were offa as good. I am not saying don't test. I am Saying it isn't reliable. I would feel better with brain MRI's of affected dogs. Brain changes do happen with all neurological diseases. In fact brain changes occur with people that are addicts. Why haven't there been any studies of dogs brains? I am tired of the "rule out" testing. And the DM DNA test still does not in any way shape or form confirm DM. Especially not in GSD's. Reeks of BS? Weird way to put it, IMO. As I sit here very concerned daily about my beloved dog. Gwen|
by Gwenith on 10 April 2012 - 03:30
|My Blade is 10 times worse off than dog in photo above. And I plan on keeping him alive until his bladder, heart or front legs go. If I posted a photo of him dragging his hind end. Reeks of BS? Really sad that statement occurred. Gwen|
by Mindhunt on 10 April 2012 - 03:52
|Actually the disease is similar to human MS. It is an immune disease which causes the body to attack the spinal cord white matter. This results in demyelination of the spinal cord and lesions starting in the lumbar region. Extracting CSF from the lumbar region and testing for elevated CSF protien combined with neurological findings is the only way to tell in the early stages. DM progresses along the spinal cord starting in the lower lumbar area and traveling up the spinal cord. Brain MRI will not show changes since the damage is located along the spinal cord (not the brain) and the dog doesn't survive damage beyond the lower thoracic region since the diaphragm becomes paralyzed. Brain MRIs may work for other neurological diseases that affect the brain.|
by marjorie on 10 April 2012 - 04:54
|--- >Actually the disease is similar to human MS.|
Exactly, so why test for ALS, which is what Dr Coates claims DM is. thats a crock of BS!
Sadly, I KNOW I will be proved right, but by then, all meaningful DM research for our breed will have been quashed. There are not 2 kinds of DM in the GSD breed- there is ONE, and it aint ALS, it doesnt start anywhere other than the rear of the dog and its not a motor neuron disease in GSDS because they cant feel their feet. What the hell is so damn difficult to understand??? Doesnt anyone have enough brain power to UNDERSTAND the differences between ALS and GSDM???? Mind boggling...
...and honestly, when I am watching my dog die from DM, how freaking DARE anyone call a post about this BULLSHIT???? I am seriously in no mood for this crap. I left the GSDCA because there wasnt one ounce of brain power in the entire club. Now I see it has spread to the rest of the breed. Well, I will tell you what- when you have all supported research that has ZERO to do with GSDS, you become responsible for destroying the breed. I hope you can live with that. i CANT! Wake up people- dammit- you dont seem to know what you dont know and thats scary!. yOU DONT EVEN KNOW ENOUGH TO ASK THE PROPER QUESTIONS! YOU ARE SO DEVOID OF KNOWLEDGE OF DM! GEEZ! HOW IS THE BREED EVER TO SURVIVE WITH the SHEEP MENTALITY OF THEIR *PROTECTERS*???? you have GSDS- not Corgis or Boxers. YOu behave like FREAKIN SHEEP instead of behaving like the intelligent noble breed you profess to love. If you love them, then STOP this nonsense and support GSD research- not corgi boxer research. This is just ridiculous!
Why not test for polio or Berry Berry- GSDS dont get those diseases, either. I bet there are a whole host of diseases you can test for that have zero to do with the GSD.. Do them all, instead of putting the money towards DM research of our OWN breed, OR JUST KEEP ON ADDING 2+2 AND COMING UP WITH 5 AND BEING CONTENT WITH THAT ANSWER.
http://www.gsdbbr.org The German Shepherd Dog Breed Betterment Registry
http://mzjf.com --> The Degenerative Myelopathy Support Group
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 12:23
Marj, since you don't feel this is a valid test, don't test your dogs, continue to recommend that breeders don't need to test and if you buy another GSD don't require that the parents are tested. There are more than a few GSD breeders not DNA testing for DM. Trust me, we get it by now - you don't think the Coates test is valid.
by kitkat3478 on 10 April 2012 - 13:18
|If I am not mistaken, I think what Gwenith is saying is that her dog has DM, despite testing that stated her dog was NOT at risk, so people may be getting a FALSE sense of security in an imperfect test, whereas genetics,(history of the dog,pedigree,etc.,) is a more reliable indicator I myself just sent out two tests,although one dog is from a few generations of mine and my sisters breedings, lines we have bred for nearly 20 years and have been lucky (blessed actually), with NO genetic defects EVER surfacing.|
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 14:06
from the OFA website