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ForumsSport/working Enthusiasts > Schutzhund and only schutzhund? (142 replies)
by beetree on 29 January 2012 - 02:16 |
| Thanks Slamdunc, You know what a ditz I can be! That probably explains the funny looks my dog was giving me, like he didn't know why I wanted to wake him up from his nap, inside that cool-looking teepee! |
beetree by mfh27 on 29 January 2012 - 21:18 |
I was wondering why none of the sport naysayers haven't posted...and then I realized this section of the forum is called "Sport/Working"  To go off topic  , the first club I joined was Schutzhund only. It was mostly a mens gossip club, but it was free training, so I cant complain too much. The club members only trialed and titled at their own club's trial.After I moved, I found a club that likes to do a variety of work in addition to Schutzhund. Its a lot more fun for the dogs and the handler, and really tests the dogs nerve and ability to handle pressure and stress. |
mfh27 by Chaz Reinhold on 29 January 2012 - 23:59 |
| This may come as a shock to some of you, but after winning the virtual world championship, this weekend, Im regrettably stepping down as a club member. I have accomplished my goals and it is time for me to invest that time elsewhere. This has been on my mind for quite some time, and now that I'm on top, it just feels right. I want to thank a few people. My mom, for being a true dog lover and buying me a computer. My dad. My dad. What else can I say? Without his love for my mom, I may have ended up starching a tube sock. And to all the little people. Too many to name, and besides, I've helped them more than they have helped me. In closing, I'd lyike to thank myself. For being the best and never looking back. For always putting myself ahead of everything else. My confidence, intelligence and devilish good looks. If I could give all of you just one tiny piece of me, this world would be a better place. Thanks again, I'll miss you, and I love you all. (Exit music) |
Chaz Reinhold by workingdogz on 30 January 2012 - 01:45 |
| Chaz, I don't think anyone will ever be able to come close to the performance you three turned out on the field. I've never seen anyone handle 2 SchH3's at the same time I bow to you in respect. You may clean your shoes on my back sir.  |
by brynjulf on 30 January 2012 - 01:50 |
| OH OH OH can I get my Virtual Master Trainers Award????? Poop, I just saw that I had to breed a male to another male to compete in virtual Schutzhund. I'm out, virtually no males in for training right now. :( Can we see video of your bark and hold Beetree? |
by beetree on 30 January 2012 - 14:45 |
Here ya go, brynjulf, |
by beetree on 30 January 2012 - 19:52 |
| Of course if you get enough points, you can move on up to the next level: |
by myret on 30 January 2012 - 22:09 |
| Well I would certainly give you my opinion I dont know about the States and your training facilitys but here In Denmark schh or IPO is the sport most breeders use when breeding Both female and males. Thère are a another programme that Will dó when breeding and that is PH that is a cimilar to a police dog training and the dogs has to perform and pass a competition for further breeding. Overall the gsd In Denmark and World wide has not Got the same drives or hardness that many of the older Lines did Breeders have been choosing otherwise since the 90's The dogs today are more soft, handler soft, cant handle a hard correction without loosing drive. Lower prey and défense . I have spoken to several competitors In schh In the Danish Championship and they to tell mé that the gsd has changed much dó to they Will have to have more dogs that are pleasers because of the hard rules In schh are always changed and the really ekstreme dogs we saw more In 90 and 80's is not what you breed today because these dogs wont get the points needed So what the reason for the change In the gsd schh or breeding Well the breeders you deside I myself dont train my dogs In schh and I have nevet told its an easy sport ,but it is a sport that Will sort the good handlers from the leds good ones more so than it tests the dogs |
myret by myret on 30 January 2012 - 22:37 |
| I dont Think the problem is the sport schh but main problem is that breeders have changed the breed because of the sport and because the Traits the sport requires to be in the top is In the demand for |
by workingdogz on 31 January 2012 - 12:50 |
| myret; It always goes back to the breeders, they either follow the "trends", or they keep on the same path. Not everyone involved in schutzhund (or any other K9 sport) wants to go to the Nationals, some just enjoy the time spent with their dogs, dog related friends etc. Getting out to the clubs seeing different dogs, you will see the ones who are still of the "old type" in the sense they bring true fight etc to their work, and you will see the "sport/competition" type. They are like night and day. So, it's up to the buyer to see what the goals of the breeder is, and make their decisions from there with purchasing. Generally speaking, the smaller "hobby" breeder not using the flavor of the month dogs will be taking a different path than those that line up to breed to the latest National winner. There are plenty of people still out there putting miles on their vehicles, themselves and their dogs doing "schutzhund" with the original purpose in mind, not all are breeders, in fact, most aren't, they just like a really good dog. It's the "internet experts" and "super breeders" that don't do shit with their dogs that are having more of an impact. They suck in the novices with their tales of grandeur, but never leave the safety of their back yard with their "wonder dogs". These are the same types of "breeders" who will profess how schutzhund sucks etc. The ones who have never done it, but these same ones will tout the titles of the grandsire/grand-dam etc? I actually kind of pity them, they will never know the feeling of success when they work with their dog as a team to achieve a goal. A goal that just happens to be an internationally recognized standard test. They will also never know through the training what their dog naturally excels at, and what troubles the dog. |
by myret on 31 January 2012 - 18:09 |
| Workingdogz I agree about the breeders , I Myself have trained a bit In schh but the sport is not what works for mé I like more RING and the KNPV but we dont have it In Denmark sadly but we dó have a similar programme to a little like KNPV not A's hard and that is what I train my dogs In I titled my male dog PH and are hoping to title my female this year. and Thère have been starting a tiny club In RING here hope to train my new pup In this and a little PH |
by workingdogz on 31 January 2012 - 23:41 |
| I tend to prefer the precision that is required in schutzhund. It's always nice to see a powerful dog that can keep power in all three phases while remaining clear and under control. When you see that very picture, it makes you stop and pay attention |
by myret on 01 February 2012 - 09:49 |
| Workingdogz I always like to see dogs go a litle overboard In bitework with a touch of ekstreme drive to a dog that has an opinion of its own I rarely like the Winners of WUSV Think its looks almost to boring but thats what I like |
by workingdogz on 01 February 2012 - 11:35 |
| Bitework is only one phase,and everyone always wants to see power of course. I also like to see a good happy and willing overall picture in obedience. A dog that can maintain a happy (not frenzied) picture, well, you can't mistake that look in the dogs eye. There is a natural flow when a dog and handler are in sync, and the dog that can show that while also showing power in obedience, thats impressive as hell to me. Tracking is another, to watch a dog that is so sure of itself track with confidence is something special to see. No "worry" in their work, they know what they are asked to do, and while it goes against their natural manner to track, they do what they are asked. When the dog is out at the end of that 30' line, all you have is what you two have built together. |
by johan77 on 01 February 2012 - 14:27 |
| If someone just are breeding for titles or points I can see SCH being negative, but that could also be said about other sports like french ring or whatever. But I don´t see the dogs that wins in competitions always get most breedings, and to say a dog with good scores is bad is also a generalization. But SCH is not the only game in town, I don´t think a SCH-titled dog are more intressting for breeding compared to a dog doing other sports or policework, those dogs that only sits in the backyard and no one have seen even in training or some kind of testing is very seldom breed too anyway, maybe that´s more common in USA. |
by workingdogz on 01 February 2012 - 15:04 |
| johan77, It is pretty common here in the USA, we have no breeding standards at all. AKC is simply the "book keeper". It's obvious to anyone with some experience, you will see the 'breeders' that don't work/title their dogs in some recognized arena (and no, it doesn't have to be schutzhund, it can be anything), these 'breeders' will ride on the coat tails of the names in their dog's pedigree, because they have nothing else. Tiekerhook, Antverpa, Leefdalhof, Jirkova Dvora etc to name a few So I guess that brings me full circle, most that say "schutzhund sucks", why do they buy dogs from titled schutzhund dogs? and why mention the titled dogs in the generations? It doesn't make sense? Is a title only good when it's behind one of 'their' dogs? |
by myret on 02 February 2012 - 08:34 |
| Workingdogz. Yes I Would like to see a drivey dog In ob as Well like Javier hé has a very Nice obedience Johann Yes that could happen In All programs but that Does not matter that much In Ring because you Wont get a RING 3 ón a medium dog you must have a good Dog to get a 3 title schh ón the other hand every dog breed Can get a schh 3 title If youre a good handler many breeds dó schh even non working dogs like mals,gsd or rottis and dutchies |
by johan77 on 02 February 2012 - 10:12 |
| Myret, but my point is many workingdog breeders don´t breed a dog just because it has a SCH-title, so then it doesn´t matter if a mediocre dog is SCH-titled because it seldom are of intresst anyway for a good breeder. A good dog for you may be a mediocre dog for someone else, it looks to me far from all ring3 dogs are the "extreme" type you favour, so as always I´m more intressted in the dog itself compared to what sport/work it does. |
by myret on 02 February 2012 - 12:00 |
| that is mý point breeders look at schh points when breeding in Denmark but again I dont think I would ever buy a dog from denmark they have not proved anything other than they can do schh I dont say that RING 3 are exstreme but it just means that it is a very good dog |
by myret on 02 February 2012 - 12:07 |
| schh point are what many breeders only look for when breeding |
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