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ForumsMain > vom Banach (68 replies)
vom Banach by Darka on 18 January 2012 - 22:46 |
| Hi everyone, long time reader, first time poster! I have been slowly starting to look around at breeders for when the time comes to get a new puppy. Can anyone tell me about vom Banach dogs? On their website it seems they have quite a few puppies that have gone on to be successful SAR and schutzhund dogs. While I am not looking to become super competitive in SchH, I would like to play around and maybe eventually do a local trial or something, so the pup I get should (ideally) have the drive for that. I guess I'm just looking to hear the positives/negatives, if there are any, of this kennel. PM's are fine. Also, a few things in the contract bother me. 1: she doesn't guarantee hips if only one hip is dyplastic. Is this a common occurance with breeders? and 2) you have to have had the xray-s taken with the dog NOT under sedation/anesthetic. Only problem with that is that many vets can't or won't take x-rays unless the dog is sedated, some dogs (especially pups I would think) just won't hold still. I would think her being a vet tech would know this (not to sound too harsh). Any other kennel recommendations would be great, too. Working lines only. Thanks. |
by macrowe1 on 18 January 2012 - 22:50 |
don't know much about them, but the contract thing seems really iffy. I have never heard of one hip guarentee? and being a vet tech myself, um no the last part sounds ridiculous. Try to roll your dog over, have it lay completely still, even support both sides, then pull outwards on both back legs. Most dogs won't just stay still for the perfect picture that the OFA needs. Iffy, I just don't trust that. |
macrowe1 by Ace952 on 18 January 2012 - 22:55 |
| Have you talked to Julie over the phone and asked her about the contract? |
Ace952 by Nans gsd on 18 January 2012 - 23:00 |
| They probably will accept a sedative; one hip NO. Sorry but I have seen some of the dogs in pics of course and they look nice and at some point you just have to take the plunge. Do you know if they are checking for DM, eyes, thyroid, cardio, One hip only, what about elbows? One elbow also?  Nan ?Seems kind of obsolete to me. But to each his own. Best of luck Nan |
by Jenni78 on 18 January 2012 - 23:11 |
| I sent you a PM, Darka. Check the upper right corner of your screen if you don't know where to read them. |
Jenni78 by Darka on 18 January 2012 - 23:12 |
| I have not talked to Julie over the phone. I would prefer to ask about a breeder and their dogs on a forum this large and then contact the breeder if it sounds like the type of kennel/dog that would suit me. I don't want to waste anyones time. |
by Turk on 18 January 2012 - 23:34 |
| I was going to buy a pup from Julie - my only problem was I preferrred to buy locally. Nothing against Julie, she was very helpful and knowledgeable. I think she has nice dogs as well. Good luck. |
Turk by jdiaz1791 on 19 January 2012 - 00:31 |
| Hi, the problem is when you put dogs under anesthesia,there is considerable subluxation ( loosening of the joints ) which plays right into some unscrupulous vets to pull legs or move them out of sockets to make some money.......one hip : there is research proving that when is genetic,both hips will be bad,the gene doesn't affect just one hip, SO if there is just one bad, then is an accident that cause this. There are 2 vets in Miami that do it without anesthesia and are quite good, find others in your area..... The DM, Cardio, etc as far as I know, most of the positives,if not all, are American bred GSD's....Good luck.... |
jdiaz1791 by heiko1 on 19 January 2012 - 07:21 |
| Jdiaz1791, I don't think so. My Czech girl OFA'd Good on one side, and mild dysplasia on the other side at 26 months of age. I got her when she was a puppy, and never had her jumping/running on hard ground till she was well over 1 year of age. She was also kept at a very lean weight. In my view, genetics are for the most part responsible for the HD problems. |
by 1GSD1 on 19 January 2012 - 11:15 |
| I don't think so either. An Amer female that we bought as a puppy years ago had 1 good hip and 1 mild hip per OFA. No injuries and not before we got her either. I knew her breeder well. |
by Betty on 19 January 2012 - 12:55 |
| I think a lot of the possoble injuries they are talking about with uniateral HD are suspected to happen at birth or shortly after. Bones are pretty soft then. |
by Jenni78 on 19 January 2012 - 15:27 |
| Yes, Betty. It is also impossible to say you know a dog never injured itself. That would mean: A) you never once took your eyes off of the dog in a nearly 2 year period. You did not go to work, you did not sleep, you did not use the bathroom, and you did not turn your head or divert your gaze at any point. B) that the dog "tells" you every time something hurts. Dogs are very stoic creatures and they don't readily show pain until it is fairly significant. Additionally, muscle atrophy can cause subluxation, obviously, so even just slightly favoring a leg (such as pano, etc.) can make that hip loose enough that it's "banging" around in that socket slightly instead of fitting tightly, so by the time the injury heals, there has been permanent damage to the joint. It can absolutely be bad enough to cause and OFA "mild" rating. I have posted this a zillion times on many different threads, but this explains it quite succinctly. http://www.showdogsupersite.com/hips.html Heiko, pay attention to the part about pet dogs vs. kennel dogs allowed to exercise (hard) whenever they want. For this reason, I don't encourage puppy owners to restrict exercise at all; I just ask that they not force it. Keeping your dog from doing such things is good, BUT, you don't want to limit their regular exercise. Strong muslces are what keeps joints nice and tight. The "weekend warriors" are more likely to show symptoms of HD, if affected. To those who think they know everything that's ever happened inside their dogs' bodies, I'll share a little story. I got a really nice female pup and brought her everywhere with me- even to work. Every day. She was never out of my sight for more than a few minutes if I left my office and left here there or whatever. She was a little monster-type pup, always into stuff and had to be monitored, especially if I wanted to keep my job! LOL Suddenly, she came up with a very slight limp- almost imperceptible. I assumed a pulled muscle, got her toe caught in crate door, etc. It didn't go away in a week, so I took her to an ortho vet I use. She had MAJOR trauma in both front legs/elbows. Her growth plates had closed in one bone on each side in an attempt to heal from extreme bone bruising. The vet said he sees this most commonly in dogs who are HIT BY CARS. Didn't really fit the profile, did it? She ended up having to have each leg bone sawed in two, and fat spliced from her belly between the bones to slow the healing so the bones would hopefully grow another inch and her legs would not keep twisting out, which is what happens with a radius and an ulna where one is growing and one is not. No one would believe what was wrong w/her was that serious; she barely limped. But as she grew, it would've gotten worse and worse. Now, if you xray her elbows, they would show as dysplastic/surgically altered (had to remove her anconeal process so it wouldn't rub and cause pain), though the issue wasn't really in her elbows at all, and the elbows were just affected, like a domino effect. If this could happen to my dog unbeknownst to me, is it that hard to believe that a minor-moderate injury could cause mild HD to appear on an xray in one hip? This isn't really about Julie; wonder if the mods could move the unilateral talk to another thread? |
by heiko1 on 20 January 2012 - 03:38 |
| @jenni78-I said " never had her jumping/running on hard ground till she was well over 1 year of age." I didn't say I restricted her exercise, just restricted her activities on hard surfaces. Please pay attention. |
by Jenni78 on 20 January 2012 - 15:10 |
| Heiko, please pay attention. Here is what I said. Odd that you would find a personal accusation in that. I apologize for calling your attention to one particular part that is related to your statements. Rest assured, in the future, I shall not waste my time. Heiko, pay attention to the part about pet dogs vs. kennel dogs allowed to exercise (hard) whenever they want. For this reason, I don't encourage puppy owners to restrict exercise at all; I just ask that they not force it. Keeping your dog from doing such things is good, BUT, you don't want to limit their regular exercise. Strong muslces are what keeps joints nice and tight. The "weekend warriors" are more likely to show symptoms of HD, if affected. |
by Blitzen on 20 January 2012 - 16:37 |
IMO there is not enough evidence to prove that unilateral HD is not genetic in nature. OFA has researched that for many years and, as far as I know, they have not issued an opinion. The only conclusion they came to based soley on stats was that the majority of unilateral HD affects the left hip. |
Blitzen by Blitzen on 20 January 2012 - 16:55 |
| I think it's a good idea for breeders to suggest that buyers keep puppies on the thin side, maybe not feed puppy chow. I don't believe that overfeeding causes HD, but I do believe it can make the condition worse. Raw feeding causes puppies to grow at a slower rate reaching their genetically programmed adult size later than puppies fed a high calory commercial diet. The jury is still out on whether or not raw fed puppies have less HD than those that are fed a commercial diet. I don't like frisbees for any large breed dog, so would not encourage that for a puppy I bred. I think it just makes good sense to not allow puppies to do a lot of jumping. Their growth plates are still open and damage to one of them can cause that leg to not grow as long as the opposing leg. Any puppy that is genetically programmed to have normal hips should not be harmed by running and playing at will. I just don't like to see them jumping up to catch a frisbee and landing hard on their rear legs or jumping on and off heights. |
by Darka on 20 January 2012 - 17:06 |
| I may be overly cautious with my puppies, actually. I feed raw, do not allow lots of exercise, walks in different areas for socialization but only long enough to see some new things and such, carrying up stairs that have more than a couple steps, LOL! My luck I'd still end up with something with HD/ED! |
by Blitzen on 20 January 2012 - 23:57 |
| You're doing the best anyone can do. |
by Betty on 21 January 2012 - 05:36 |
| "Yes, Betty. It is also impossible to say you know a dog never injured itself. " Pretty sure no one is able to quote me on saying that...LOL My dogs would of made a liar out of me real quick. LOL |
by Betty on 21 January 2012 - 05:38 |
| That's interesting about the left hip Blitzen, I wasn't aware of that. Seems like that would add more weight to it being genetic rather then an accident in most cases. That being said, this is the first time I've heard of a breeding not covering unilateral hd. |
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