Main > GERMAN INVASION,,, THE GERMAN DOG IN THE AMERICAN RING (38 replies)
GERMAN INVASION,,, THE GERMAN DOG IN THE AMERICAN RING
by Dog1 on 16 January 2012 - 12:30
|We entered our German dog in the American ring. What we found has surprised us a little.|
There are those that appreciate the German dog, even judges that support them. However and this is a big HOWEVER. If no one takes their dog to these shows or judges,,,it doesn't matter what the judges think because there are no dogs there to prove it. It's difficult to make your point when there's nothing there to prove your point. Make sense?
So we tested the waters and our German contender has fulfilled his 2 major requirement. For those not familiar with the AKC system (believe me I'm one of them). A dog needs 15 points and two majors to be an American Champion. We have won two 4 point majors in our first two outings without a professional handler.
The reception has been warm and cold as expected. There are those that have open minds and a few a bit aghast at the idea. We've entered some pretty big events. One 'specialty' and one 'All Breed' event. Entry costs were 25.00 per class at one show and 30.00 per class at the other. We had those in our group handle the dogs and at times as you can imagine it wasn't pretty. But I didn't see anyone else there having a better time with their dogs.
We're going North to the NJ coast. Entries close Wednesday the 18th. We sure could use some support in either entries or handlers. If you're in the area and want to join in with your dog, love to have you there. If you want to be there, can handle, and need a dog,,,we'll bring one for you. Just PM me. You'll need to decide quickly as the entries close soon.
To be continued........
by Blitzen on 16 January 2012 - 14:04
|Great news, Dog1.|
If I may make a suggestion, you may want to get into the habit of having future wins photographed at the show and make sure to send the judge a copy of the picture. I don't think that was done with Waiko's first major, the judge didn't get a copy of the photo (if there was one). No different than the SV shows, you want the handlers to become familar faces as well as the dogs.
Also interesting - the WB for a 4 pt major looks to be 1/2 GSL sired by a Wilhendorf dog, 1/2 ASL and the RWB was bred by Karin Wagner, Alkarah, who had some nice litters out of Jim v Fiemerck. Jim is most likely behind her. Karin may be a good judge for your German dogs.
Why did the judge excuse those dogs?
by VKGSDs on 16 January 2012 - 14:45
I agree that it's not really fair to complain but then never try. My issue is that I only have so much money for entries and so many resources available for traveling to events, so I tend to pick the ones that I enjoy the most and where my dogs are most likely to succeed. I also prefer UKC because you can enter "day of" so if my dog gets hurt or is out of coat, I'm not out my entry fees. Or, if I wake up and my dog looks amazing I can head over to the show. I don't really have any major complaints about the AKC ring, it's just not my thing. I'm spoiled living 1 hour from UKC headquarters so we have lots of UKC shows available nearby.
by Blitzen on 16 January 2012 - 14:57
|I've never shown at UKC shows, but I know a lot who do and they enjoy them.|
by Dog1 on 16 January 2012 - 15:11
Thanks for the advice. We can use all we can get starting out. We did take pictures at both events. First one has been ordered and is on infodog.com. This weekends picture I think will be excellent. We will be sure to order a few copies.
The excused dog was my error. Those that know me know I'm not the most graceful mover myself and I stepped on the dog's right front paw about 1/3 of the way around the ring which caused him to limp in pain for the remainder. He was fine a few minutes later but not able to complete the class.
We are developing a list of AKC judges that are German friendly. I had a few AKC breeders breed to Ronaldo and came up with some nice crosses that did well.
by Blitzen on 16 January 2012 - 15:36
So it was YOU who was excused, not the dog LOL? Happens to all of us, even the pros. I once saw a woman step out of her half slip running her dog around the ring, she didn't miss a beat.
by SitasMom on 16 January 2012 - 17:42
A few weeks ago, we entered 5 Euro GSD's (4 conformation, 1 working) in a UKC show and had a blast! 4 shows with 4 different judges in one weekend. Our dogs did very well and one recieved 95 of the 100 points to move up. Many of our dogs won their class winning points too.
The champion was a nice bicolor working line female.
The best part of UKC is that its fun, and being the first time in the showring, the judges forgave my horrible handling. They were happy to see healthy, fit dogs with good temperaments and a newbee doing her best....
We plan to do it again, and again......
by Sam1427 on 17 January 2012 - 00:00
|Congratulations on the two majors!|
I suspect that German GSDs will do better in AKC rings than in specialty rings, unless the specialty judge happens to like the German dogs. You get a good range of opinions, from positive and constructive to real bad-mouthing. I sure did. Some people are nice, some are nasty, just like it is in everything. But if you are able to show and have a dog with good conformation, go for it.
by vonissk on 17 January 2012 - 00:24
|Once again congrats and I think it is awesome...........I too think you will do better in all breed then specialties.................|
Kim I love UKC too. It's fun, I've met a lot of really nice people there, it's more casual then AKC and I see a lot of Jr Handlers in the regular rings which I like. I know a couple in my area that I think may be doing this the rest of their lives--they are good and they can read their dogs. And VK I am with you--even tho in my immediate area we only have 4 days of showing a year, it is only about an hour from here and I too like the day of entry option. Here we have 2 shows on Sat and only 1 on Sunday. So our going on Sunday depends on whether we feel like it early that morning.
by Blitzen on 17 January 2012 - 00:47
|One of Waiko's major wins was at an independent specialty under a judge who likes, owns, trains and titles German dogs, Helen Gleason.|
by brynjulf on 17 January 2012 - 16:14
|Congrats Randy!!! Majors are the hard part so it's all downhill from here. Don't worry about grumpy people on the sidelines. I was involved in CKC conformation years. It's part of it unfortunately.|
by Dog1 on 18 January 2012 - 13:42
|I see others are involved in the American style shows reading other posts and threads. The learning curve has been interesting so far. There are many, I really mean many differences between the two styles of dogs and the way they are shown. In fact I would say it's almost completely opposite.|
Here are a few examples:
In the German ring it is acceptable even encouraged to examine the pedigree. This gives the judge some insight to the dog's background, How it represents it's lineage, and if the dogs behind it are the dogs that are currently being used to direct the breed. In the American ring, no pedigree. They don't want to seem biased by allowing the dogs in the pedigree to influence their decision.
The German judges are German Shepherd specialists. We have some AKC judges I would consider specialists but for the most part the judges are familiar with German Shepherds and judge multiple breeds.
The German Dog must go into the ring with a tight coat. If it's fluffy, it's a fault and the dog is penalized. In the American ring, fuller the better. There are many at the show spending hours blowing and grooming minute details of the dogs.
In the American ring, handlers can bait the dog to make it alert.Double handling is not allowed in general. In the German ring, double handling is allowed and necessary in most cases. Certainly it is a part of the show program.
No practice in the ring in the American shows. There's usually a practice ring set up in the German shows.
Dress, yes most of the female handlers wear dresses and the men wear suits and tie in the American ring. German ring is a bit different. Come as you are. Dress is a variety of jeans and athletic style suits.
Class time. It starts on the minute in the AKC ring and there's no time between classes to do anything but get the next dog in there. Be 1 minute late and you may find yourself on the outside while the class you were supposed to be in goes on without you. The whole AKC German Shepherd show is over in less time than it takes to do one puppy class at an SV show.
Biggest difference? I would have to say is the atmosphere. The participants and judges usually congregate after the show over a few beers and there are groups of get togethers around the SV event and in the host hotel. I didn't see this at the AKC events.
by beetree on 19 January 2012 - 14:38
|Thanks Dog1, I just want to say I am enjoying your "journal" that you are sharing.|
by Dog1 on 19 January 2012 - 15:39
We'll keep you posted on the progress. Do you know or is there a way to find out what American Champions in the past have been German?
by beetree on 19 January 2012 - 15:47
|Oh goodness, I'm just a beginner, I just think about buying a SL and showing in the future sometime when the kids leave the nest. Maybe Keith can help you there with some facts on that, or Silbersee?|
by Blitzen on 20 January 2012 - 13:13
|You would have to find a list of GSD's that finished their AKC championships and try to figure out their parentage by looking at their registered names unless the sire and dam were included. I don't think there have been very many in the last 10 years or so. Goldfarb had a few, Smith fiinshed Jim, Diane Merkel may have finshed an import , maybe Win Strickland. Otherwise the only person I can think of who would know would be Fred Lanting.|
by Blitzen on 20 January 2012 - 13:30
|Forgot to mention Liedo, an AKC champion too.|
by Agassiz1 on 20 January 2012 - 13:46
|Where is Leido now?|
by Blitzen on 20 January 2012 - 13:53
by Agassiz1 on 23 January 2012 - 20:40
|I don't think he is still with Haus Juris.|