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ForumsMain > What is your opinion on Schutzhundsport in the USA ? (68 replies)
What is your opinion on Schutzhundsport in the USA ? by pepke on 10 January 2012 - 00:36 |
| Clubs, Organizations, Judges, Dogs, Decoys, Trainers whatever is involved in the sport, what do you think about it ? |
by workingdogz on 10 January 2012 - 00:43 |
| I wish the clubs/people would worry less about what club is better and just get back to schutzhund. Bring back the old reed stick, bring back the courage rating system. Bring back a real test of courage, never mind using "softer" words like 'grip', 'long bite". Just bring back schutzhund  Don't worry about people being members of as many clubs as they want to, just let them trial! It's hard enough to make it to trials/breed surveys etc in this country, why make it harder? Lots of good trial decoys around, less good training decoys. As it is, it's all we got right now. |
by ramgsd on 10 January 2012 - 00:55 |
| Amen, Workingdogz. I just hope the judges grade the dog in protection the way the new rules state they should. Emphasis on a true H&B (not prey barking) and greater importance on the power in the escape rather than on a full grip. Trying to think possitively about everyone being in the sport of IPO. I think this might be a good step. Not only so that everyone, and their dogs, around the world are held to the same rules. So we can see exzctly how the dogs stack up against each other. But it might be a good thing to have everyone united if and when the Humaniacs actually try and stop all bite work sports. Harder to stop a large group than a bunch of smaller ones. Rick |
by Jyl on 10 January 2012 - 01:34 |
| WorkingDogz, AMEN to that!! |
Jyl by Slamdunc on 10 January 2012 - 03:17 |
Well said. |
Slamdunc by Detroit SchH on 10 January 2012 - 04:13 |
| I think we schutzhunder's should not scurry around changing rules to make animal-rights-weirdos and general public (who dont even know what they are seeing) happy. I have never heard of any "humane-iacs" interupting training or trials. Have they? The new bite-command-rule, on the escape bite, that cannot be a command to "bite" is insane to me. I feel like it is to make the general public happy and that's all. What was wrong with the escape exercise how it was? And now we are changing the name of our sport from "Schutz hund" (protection dog) to whatever IPO means. Oh yeah, and the new name for stick hits is the "stick pressure test". We schutzhunder's need not be ashamed that our sport has stick HITS and dogs that BITE (not grip) when we tell them to. |
Detroit SchH by Gustav on 10 January 2012 - 04:35 |
| Good post workingdogz !!!!! |
by SitasMom on 10 January 2012 - 05:00 |
| I wish Schutzhund in America had less political infighting.... Show lines, working lines, WDA, UScA, DVA..... everything is so much more complicated then it needs to be. Instead of putting each other down, we need to build each other up. We are such a small group of people who are all interested in the promoting the same thing. We have too few experienced helpers and handlers that will actually help newbie. For the sport, and for the breed, if there was much more true sportsmanship we would all be much better off - especially our dogs. |
by pepke on 10 January 2012 - 06:02 |
| Good Post SitasMom !!!! |
by Bob McKown on 10 January 2012 - 12:27 |
IPO is fine for a world sport, let the Schutzhund test be a real breeding suitability test with true stressor,s and requirements that highlite a dogs real physical abilities to enhance the breed not a "let every one play test" that we have today. A dogs true utility should be the basis for it,s breed suitability. |
by Blitzen on 10 January 2012 - 12:51 |
I would never underestimate the extent to which the AR people will go to stop dog sports.They are relentless. They are currently focusing on AKC shows, releasing dogs from crates because it's cruelty to animals to cage them. Dog sled races, weight pulls, both on their radar; cruel to "make" dogs pull a load. |
Blitzen by workingdogz on 10 January 2012 - 13:26 |
| Blitzen, They have been releasing them from crates for years. Thats why some AKC events are like Ft Knox  The AR people rely on others to try to "hide" what they do, in other words, Schutzhund people try to downplay things, I think thats the worst thing we can do. Public demos with educational speaking,all serves to educate and put what Schutzhund really is (or meant to be), in a positive light. How many times have you seen some sort of "protection or obedience demo" and listened to the bystanders, the "ooohs and ahhhhhs". Education is the key, we have answered many questions over the years from curious onlookers, we have always tried to remain pleasant and stress the need of stability of the dog to be able to do this kind of work. |
by dAWgESOME on 10 January 2012 - 15:11 |
I agree with a lot of what others have already posted - I have been a club member, supported shows and trials in my region and have really seen the whole organization (or lack there of) go down hill. This fall I decided to transition to Mondio Ring for my BITE sport and will be taking some agility and K9 nose work classes as well as getting more active in UKC events and shows.
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dAWgESOME by Lucky74 on 10 January 2012 - 15:21 |
| I feel like this country is sowly going to shit. Its like we don't glorify hard work or courage anymore. Dogs were domesticated by humans to serve us. And although my dogs are treated like royalty I still expect them to do their job. And if they don't they don't get bred and so on. There is a video on youtube of a Saluki YES A SALUKI. Chasing and bringing down a Gazzelle. A dog doing what he was bred to do centuries ago and the comments posted to the guy are incredible. Made me sick. I hear they are moving to ban hunting boar with dogs now here in the USA as well. If you trully love working dogs period id suggest you join other owners of other breeds that are being attacked by anima rights activists and help them fight for their right to use their dogs for what they were bred for. Or guess what? It will get to a point where your dogs will be next eventually with your sport. |
by workingdogz on 10 January 2012 - 17:28 |
| Lucky, You are dead on! This is why we go out of our way to support anti-breed legislation etc. Once the "foot is in the door", it's easy for the AR/Breed legislation to keep adding breeds to the list. But, back to schutzhund. In order to continue to survive in this country, people must be willing to help out the newbies that come to check out the club, but again, a two way street, the newbies must be willing to learn, and do some work on their own, not just have someone "show them" how to do it. A dog club is not private training. |
by momosgarage on 10 January 2012 - 21:30 |
| workingdogz, I agree the sport needs to be more newbie friendly. However saying "not just have someone show them how to do it" isn't going to win over any newbies. They will just go to the AKC club instead, telling others your club is filled with jerks. Things have to change soon or newbies will ALL flock to other venues, as they have been doing. I don't know what the solution is, but what is being done now to introduce and encourge new people isn't working at all. I see them all the time trying out my clubs general training classes. They usually have an out of control pitbull or Mastiff breed, refuse to use any kind of choke or training collar and adamantly insist on using some kind of harness contraption instead. I hate to say it, but this kind of dog owner could become our future enemy and from what I have seen these kind of people are supporting animal rights style agendas. I would even dare to say this kind of dog owner is the MAJORITY type among younger upcomming large breed dog owners. I don't think I've seen many from the under 30 crowd show up for classes with a GSD, just out of control pitbulls, Mastiff breeds, malteses and other sub-15 pound dogs. On a similar note, look at how boot camps have changed for all services to accomodate millenials and generation Y. What is Schutzhund doing to bring in the under 30 crowd, whom appear to be overwhelmingly supporting animal rights causes? I think we are losing the future quickly and we will see the total end of bite sports when those misguided youth of today are the majority tomorrow. Not to mention most young people now are so underemployed they can only afford cats and pocket pets. Most live in apartments and those that do live in homes, have landlords that prefer cats and malteses, while outright banning GSDs, Dobermans and Rottweilers. We are fighting an economic and cultural shift that WILL totally destroy the sport without an immediate infusion of young blood that have fully bought into the concept. |
by Blitzen on 10 January 2012 - 21:46 |
| Excellent post, momosgarage. |
by Lucky74 on 10 January 2012 - 21:47 |
| Good post momosgarage |
by momosgarage on 10 January 2012 - 21:57 |
| To Lucky74 and Blitzen, I added a paragraph to my original post, that was not there when you first replied. So, if you don't still fully agree with me post-edit, I understand: I see them all the time trying out my clubs general training classes. They usually have an out of control pitbull or Mastiff breed, refuse to use any kind of choke or training collar and adamantly insist on using some kind of harness contraption instead. I hate to say it, but this kind of dog owner could become our future enemy and from what I have seen these kind of people are supporting animal rights style agendas. I would even dare to say this kind of dog owner is the MAJORITY type among younger upcomming large breed dog owners. I don't think I've seen many from the under 30 crowd show up for classes with a GSD, just out of control pitbulls, Mastiff breeds, malteses and other sub-15 pound dogs. Surely the above is not scientific, but I am sure seeing the pattern a lot, year after, year, after year. |
by workingdogz on 11 January 2012 - 00:29 |
| momo, I agree with you about being more "newbie friendly", perhaps I didn't word the part about showing them how it's done as nicely as I wanted to. I'm sure most involved with the sport know what I meant, the people that show expecting a group obedience class etc when in fact it's the complete opposite at most clubs. We try to assign a "training buddy" to newbies to help them along, and we don't allow bitework to be done with a dog that is obviously out of control, clubs have to watch liability and know when to say "when". One thing I forgot to mention, and I think of it every time we train, is how damn expensive this sport has gotten. I think that is also a big downfall to the sport, now days it seems as though some of these helpers make a substantial tax free secondary, (or sometimes primary) income doing helperwork! I don't expect a helper to work for free, but some people are paying $50.00+ per session per dog for bitework, obedience and tracking is extra-at a CLUB! On top of that a membership fee. It has really gotten out of hand over the years. |
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