Sport/working Enthusiasts > Bark development? (23 replies)
by MyCheckShepherd on 01 January 2012 - 14:49
|Can a bark be developed and if so how? Or is it something that develops as the dog matures/becomes more confident?|
by judron55 on 06 January 2012 - 12:00
|you can develope the bark at the puppy stage....try some suspicion work with a good helper. This should be done at a distance when starting!|
by Fat Addies on 11 January 2012 - 15:41
I am going to go the other road here. First. I think most puppies are pups. Just like kids are just kids. It takes some time for the dog to grow up, and act like a warrior.
I would advise at not being suspicious with a puppy. Pups are very aware of thier mortality. I have yet to see these rare super puppies that come out with balls as big as king kongs, ready to take a drive up field. So, when we act suspicious the pup will worry. And a pups primary means of defense is fleeing, finding mama and hiding. Mamas primary defense is a mouth full of teeth and a bark as a warning shots.
There is very, very little to be gained by tapping into a puppies nerve base, and whole lot to be lost. Because if it goes wrong, and the puppy has a negative experience. That could be in his mind forever.
There are no competetions for puppies...only dogs. you have th dogs whole life to train the dog. You have only about one year to put the boogie man in there head.
Also, The acting suspicious thing. The other reason I think to stay away from this. Is the dog being cheerlead. Even if the dog REACTS to the suspicion. It's not going to stick. When the suspicion is gone from the helper. The dog will go back to normal barking. Now flip that around, you stand still. The dog barks and you all of sudden come a live. Now the puppy's bark has the power to active. The pup is now not reacting to stimulation. But he has become the stimulation.
by palmettoprotectionk9 on 11 January 2012 - 16:23
|Agreed with Fat you can be very animated and work in prey and get a dog to bark. Some dogs it takes a lot for them to bark. i personally have two dogs that dont want to bark but then i have a 6 month old female GSD who will bark all day and will bark in prey work . So just evaluate what you have and see what will work. I wouldnt work a pup in defense so soon though|
by judron55 on 12 January 2012 - 18:54
|the suspicion work puts no pressure on a pup...because it's done at a distance....say helper at blind six while pup is down other end of field...and the pups enjoy it...making you run back into the blind...but...to each his own. You'd be amazed at what a pup can teach you:-)|
I'd bet I could get your dog to bark by just look and posture.....!
by judron55 on 12 January 2012 - 18:58
|you can be very animated and work in prey and get a dog to bark.|
One thing I hate is having a helper act like a total nut to get a dog to bark....when it's so natural through suspicion....oh well..!
by judron55 on 12 January 2012 - 19:01
| Because if it goes wrong, and the puppy has a negative experience. That could be in his mind forever.|
just as poor positive experiences can do the same....be in his mind forever...negative experiences are part of training....poor puppy!
by palmettoprotectionk9 on 13 January 2012 - 16:35
|@ judronn55 you have to find out what a pup can handle a defensive dog by breeding doesnt need to have more defense put into it. yes you can use a blind but why not give a pup i repeat PUP animation. I'm pretty sure that several well known Schutzhund trainers will disagree with you sir.|
by judron55 on 13 January 2012 - 18:05
| I'm pretty sure that several well known Schutzhund trainers will disagree with you....|
disagree with me....NAH:-) but, as I said, to each his own:-) for one thing, the dog is going to do a H/B on a stationary individual...why not start that way...secondly...there is no pressure on the pup...I say pup....you are asking for a bark...not to stop a felon...sheesh.
By the way...I've learned from some well known schutzhund trainers...and some of there methods are suspect:-)...
by judron55 on 13 January 2012 - 18:07
|a defensive dog by breeding doesnt need to have more defense put into it.|
oh please....the dog is what it is...barking is not defending. Poor puppy!
by judron55 on 13 January 2012 - 18:09
|but why not give a pup i repeat PUP animation.|
because I don't believe that brings out the best bark...but, some do and others just do what others do:-)
by palmettoprotectionk9 on 13 January 2012 - 23:58
@judron55 negative sir ... A dog is what you make through training. If a dog was what it is from the get then no training would be required. I think that you have your own style of training and so do I as for training with top schutzhund people so have i and seminars fom top KNPV trainers as well. From what i hav understood is that this comes later in training not in the early stages of development. Im not going to get into a pissing match but i think the original poster would appreciate my method better than others.
by alboe2009 on 14 January 2012 - 07:28
|First, we don't know the dog in question? Don't know if it's a puppy? Young adult? Or adult?|
by judron55 on 14 January 2012 - 11:55
palmetto...negative sir...the dog has to have the right genetics before any training is involved...now listen...please don't come on here spouting about those famous trainers you've been around. I ain't impressed...sheesh, why can't people discuss something without taking it personal...there are a multitude of ways to do most things....more than one person can be right..especially when it comes to dog training....peace!
by FrankSinatra on 14 January 2012 - 21:34
|Ok, the bitch in question is 2 years old, a working police dog with some very nice Chzech dogs in her pedigree some being Chzech border patrol dogs ( her kennel name being Ella of Milipoli if anyone were interested ).......|
by alboe2009 on 15 January 2012 - 03:31
|FrankSinatra..... OP is MyCheckShepherd so I'm not sure if you're the same or if you know OP and commented on his/her dog? But to OP? Are you asking for "barking" as the dog doesn't bark at all? Has never barked? All of his two years? Or are you asking to like intensify the bark? Or even bark on command?|
If the dog doesn't even bark at all or has never barked there might be problems medically? But if he/she does bark but you want more? Or to intensify? What does she/he bark for now? And just intensify/osculate that? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question...........
My male I "intensified" his bark then at times got him to bark on command. (With a wink or click of my teeth) but I would build up or intensify by placing a tennis ball in the crook of my neck or hold it behind my head. He wanted it, wanted it bad. He would then have to bark harder/louder before he got it. Then it progressed to the non verbal cues.
And you stated it was a PSD? Working Patrol? Not sure if I can remember let alone seen a patrol dog that didn't/couldn't bark???
by FrankSinatra on 15 January 2012 - 19:52
|No, sorry,let me clarify, she barks on finding the subject but the bark sometimes becomes a clacking of the teeth with no sound then reverts back to barking.....I want to intensify the bark to a constant intense machine gun bark if there's a way.....the usual methods of frustrating the dog haven't made a lot of difference. ( so, lol no, she' s not the worlds first non barking Police dog.....)|
by katesgillkennels on 19 February 2012 - 14:29
Just to clarify, this bitch came from our kennel ! as for her bark ! she was never a dog that sparked up ! she is more bite than bark,can be head strong,and totally for her handler,good luck with her and her career.
by EUROSHEPHERDS on 20 February 2012 - 04:40
| clacking of the teeth with no sound then reverts back to barking.....I want to intensify the bark to a constant intense machine gun bark if there's a way.....the usual methods of frustrating the dog haven't made a lot of difference. (|
I would say you are putting too much frustration on this dog and she goes too deep in defence mode that stops her from barking . Years ago I was in Germany and visiting a club, they had some of the dogs tied to the fence and let them bark their heart out . they told me that this will build habbit and develop larger lungs needed for strong and contiues barking .
by workingdogz on 20 February 2012 - 12:15
|judron has the right idea in my opinion.|
Thats how we start all our puppies too,
"peekaboo" games from a distance. No
full on fight etc, just a simple "chase away the
bad guy" game from a distance.
If that simple little exercise tramatizes your
puppy, well, you have much bigger problems
than you are aware of.
By the way, to the other poster, it's very
common for puppies/dogs to be staked out all day
at the KNPV clubs, they have stake out poles all
along the side of the training field. No handler is
close by, the puppy/dog is out there by itself, with
really nothing to do but watch and bark