Conformation Showing > Difference in stacks (63 replies)
by Ibrahim on 10 October 2011 - 23:11
|When you applied the pressure on hip in last pic, the hock was further pushed backwards and the hock now is not perpendicular to the floor which is a must for a correct stack and judge would notice that.|
No matter how you stack that dog he would look beautiful because he is, even in a natural stack he looks good if not even better.
by Ibrahim on 10 October 2011 - 23:20
|Can critique him in the natural stack?|
by mfh27 on 10 October 2011 - 23:25
|Of course Ibrahim !|
by Ibrahim on 10 October 2011 - 23:49
|From the picture, (and please keep in mind that seeing a dog on site enables a more precise evaluation):|
Good type, medium size, good proportions and nice balance, nice head of good proportions and parallel planes, nice ear carriage, nice neck which blends nicely into its body, high withers but slightly short, beautiful straight and slightly sloping back, very good lay of a slightly short croup and good lay of tailset, tail is good.
Good chest front development but can be better, good chest depth, under chest is slightly short and loin is slightly long, good front angulation allover, front upper arm is slightly short, shoulder blade is slightly forward which shortens the withers though still high, nice front arms, good pasterns of good angle, feet and toes are not very clear to me.
Nice rear angulation, stifle angle can be a little more, very good strong hocks of good length. I like this dog, when you look at him as a package he’s really nice looking, nothing is exaggerated in him and nothing looks out of balance. Enjoy him.
by mfh27 on 11 October 2011 - 17:18
|I had only inteded to get criques of his stack; but thanks for writing a structural critique, Ibrahim.|
I like natural stacks better. I kind of wish hand stacking was not allowed at shows.
On another thread, someone mentioned you can teach a dog to stack with lowered hips without pushing on them. Is that true?
by Ibrahim on 11 October 2011 - 17:22
|I will pass on this question, I don't know, maybe some one will give us tips on stacking and maybe teach us some nice tricks, lol|
by SchaeferhundSchH on 11 October 2011 - 17:23
The lowered hips is an artifcial way to get the same thing that I like to call "leaning into" the stack.
When my dogs are alerting on something and getting ready to bark, they will stand in a natural stack and lean into it before they begin barking or running forwards.
This is the same thing I try to replicate in stacking my dogs. I will stack them out, they look all lazy, but when I bring out a favorite toy they lean into the stack but stay there and then they look their best.
I wonder if this is what you were talking about?
by Xeph on 11 October 2011 - 19:27
|I can make my little bitch look all sorts of ways, depending on how I stack her|
Here she is at 9 months old, completely freestacked. I didn't touch her. I told my husband to get the camera, and I backed out of the way
Here's the same girl in March of this year, yet again free stacked:
And here are a couple pictures of me setting her up myself:
by Rik on 14 October 2011 - 10:54
|at one time, Andrew Masia (Jagenstadt) posted a very good tutorial on stacking. can't find it now but maybe someone can and put up a link to it.|
by Donnerstorm on 15 October 2011 - 03:21
|xeph, I of course do not know anything about stacks I'm just learning but I think my favorite out of the pics you posted was the last one. Schaef I also like the ones where the dog is leaning in, to me it at least for the gsds it does make them appear more alert like you said and less lazy. Rik that tutorial would be great to watch, Ibrahim is usually the one that in my experience can find pretty much anybody asks and post it. So Ibrahim have you heard of that video? Think maybe you could find it for us newbies to watch??|
by Jyl on 15 October 2011 - 04:46
|This is how I was taught to stack a German Shepherd....|
Always stack the FRONT first, and intentionally just a little too far UNDER the body. This way, when you set the back left leg to the rear, it will pull the front legs into the proper position! If you set the front legs straight to begin with, when you set the rear legs, it pulls the body back, but leaves the front feet in their original position, but moves the forearms back, creating the improper angle.
When you set the rear, set his/her right rear leg (the one closest to you) with the tips of his/her toes right under where the tip of her peter should be if he/she is a male! (He/She will need this three point stance to balance while you set his/her last leg) Then set the left hind leg last- bring it back far enough from the body that the lower leg from the point of the hock to the pastern is pretty much straight up and down.
Doing this you will be able to see a much nicer topline, and it will accentuate a nice croup and tail set, as well as give an accurate idea of his/her proper proportions.
Here is my female I have now...
This is several years ago.... She was 15 months old at this time. This is a free stack..
Here she is a couple months ago... the stack wasnt the best...lol. She was in heat at this time so she has a "sloppy" look to her..
by Xeph on 15 October 2011 - 06:37
|I think my favorite out of the pics you posted was the last one. |
A lot of people love that picture, thanks for the compliment. I think it's the overall setting :) My little girl was just 15 months old there.
Schaef I also like the ones where the dog is leaning in, to me it at least for the gsds it does make them appear more alert like you said and less lazy.
You do have to be careful with that, as too much leaning forward changes the angle of the shoulder, so a dog that has a good front can look like its got a not so great front.
by Donnerstorm on 15 October 2011 - 10:13
|Once again I have to say I'm just dumbfounded! Stacking really is an art form. I'm really liking this new forum. Only having wl guys and no exposure really to anybody that shows I never dreamed there was this much to know! I guess I just assumed it was a beauty pagent and you just had to get your dog to look pretty and run around in circles, This is a lot of info to learn !! Thanks so much to everybody for sharing their knowledge.|
by GSDNewbie on 15 October 2011 - 12:39
|It is an art form, you do have to work hard for it, and yes it is more than prancing around the ring with a groomed dog. Conformation is more than just the outward appearance and does have impact on the dogs performance ability. TY Donner, I started out with working dogs of another breed and understand what you are saying in your post all to well.|
by Xeph on 16 October 2011 - 04:30
|I guess I just assumed it was a beauty pagent and you just had to get your dog to look pretty and run around in circles|
Lots of people think the above, and it is not true. The politics and what not suck in the conformation ring, regardless of AKC/CKC or SV...but that doesn't change the fact that a LOT of people work REALLY hard for their wins. Training, conditioning, training some more. There is a lot more to the training of a conformation dog than people let on.
Teaching carriage of the head, going nice and easy on the down and back, gaiting at various speeds, not JUST "hell bent for leather" or "nice and easy". In the AKC ring you teaach dogs how to bait and how to freestack.
Mirada has a beautiful front:
But look at her shoulder angle when she leans too far forward:
by Donnerstorm on 17 October 2011 - 04:38
|Xeph that 2nd stack makes her look a lot different than the first. That was what prompted me to start the thread, I guess you guys figure out through yrs of experience which way to stack each individual dog? And I definately agree the people that are winning the shows have put a lot of work into getting there, not just training the dog but all the things they as handlers have to know also, like I said I've spent yrs in the wl gsds, we don't get near that involved in the conformation, in my experience it is more performance based. I'm not saying the dogs are trained less or the owners/handlers know less by any means, it's just focused on different areas. It is very intimidating for those of us that are just thinking we want to try showing. If you are in the AKC rings how do the dogs that are german sl do? do they run into the same problems as the wl guys?|
by Xeph on 17 October 2011 - 05:27
|I guess you guys figure out through yrs of experience which way to stack each individual dog? |
Yes indeed :)
If you are in the AKC rings how do the dogs that are german sl do? do they run into the same problems as the wl guys?
Some do ok, but you HAVE to know your judges, and you HAVE to take them a dog that has almost no curve in the spine. They will not put up a dog with a roachy topline when they have so many straight toplines to choose from.
Many Euro show lines have the rear angles to be competitive in the ring, but not the front to match, or they've got an incorrect topline that the judges are unable to look past.
There are 3 Euro show line dogs being exhibited in the AKC ring right now. Don't know how close any are to finishing, but I know at least one has his majors.
by Kalibeck on 18 October 2011 - 02:23
|Kali in a natural stack, in soft fairly deep snow. jackie harris|
by bazza on 20 October 2011 - 09:50
|Noticed some pics of dogs with thier necks and head strung away up high with the collar and lead. This totally distorts the front angulation so why would anyone do this? Just seems strange and extemely unnatural looking. Are the dogs moved/shown like this? Again that would hinder the front reach and create a hackney type movement. Anyone????????|
by gsdshow on 21 October 2011 - 15:03
Sorry, I have a question about the rear part of the stack, in all the pictures I see the dogs rear leg that is facing the camera is always the one that is back further. Why? If they don't stack naturally would that be a fault?