Training and Obedience > Sit means Sit or Wait & Stay (24 replies)
Sit means Sit or Wait & Stay
by Vixen on 25 August 2011 - 16:19
|Which do you prefer when training with your dogs, does Sit mean Sit, (just as Down would mean Down). Or do you add "Sit, Wait" or "Sit, Stay"? |
I don't think either are right or wrong, and fully appreciate that Sit must mean Sit anyway, but feel whichever is purely a preference to the Trainer.
For myself and dogs I prefer to add "Wait" or "Stay". I want the dog to recognise the requirement of that Sit. If I have added "Wait", then to register acknowledgement of further movement. For his/her attitude to be ready on the ‘starting block’ and focussed on me for the required direction.
However, if "Sit, Stay", I want the dog to recognise and be relaxed and comfortable, confident in the understanding that movement will not be required until my return.
I know of some Owners who only ever say "Sit, Stay", whether or not the dog is to Stay or be called to the Owner. Now that I don't care for, as I would prefer in that situation for the Sit to be sufficient. But again, an individual's preference.
by sueincc on 25 August 2011 - 20:21
|Sit means sit, my dog must sit until I say otherwise. In the sit out of motion exercise (schH) you can only give one command anyway.|
by Vixen on 25 August 2011 - 21:02
|Hello sueincc, I presume "sit out of motion" is the same as the UK "ASSD" - i.e. positions on the move in slow, normal and fast pace. During heelwork the dog is given three positions to hold, until Handler returns walks passed, about turns, and picks up dog to maintain the heelwork. In this situation, only one command is given - but equally in this exercise of heelwork the dog recognises that requirement.|
I am referring to a general Stay exercise either in-sight or out-of-sight. Compared to a Novice Recall or an A-Recall - whereby the dog will be required to re-join the Handler when instructed.
In fact different again would be a Retrieve, Scent or Sendaway, where I would not expect to tell a dog to Sit at heel before we begin. Just his/her name should bring him into that position.
Varying commands for different purposes, or almost no command, but observation of body language or the exercise itself, requires a dog to be aware of his/her part in the team work.
Again, nothing right or wrong but the preferences of Handler and dog working together, providing complying to applicable regulations.
by muttlover25 on 25 August 2011 - 21:40
|I show in AKC obedience so I use Sit then a stay/hand signal. We do alot of demos and other stuff with our crew so stay basically means you'll stay there and no matter what distractions we use don't move. If I give just a sit most times I'll be doing other obedience immediately afterward such as hand signals etc. This helps the dog know whats to be expected. It works with our dogs and doesn't seem to cause confusion etc. |
by RLHAR on 26 August 2011 - 00:08
|In SchH all commands are one word only except for the call out of the blind and running the blinds.|
So whether in sight or out of sight, it's one command "Platz" or "Down". A second command would be faulted.
by Mindhunt on 26 August 2011 - 02:16
|Sit means sit until released with a release command. Same with down, freeze, etc. I have different a command for lie down and get comfortable, they are allowed to get up and resettle, as long as they stay in the area and only get up to resettle not sit up or stand. Still the same, they follow the command until released. I have used this command when at a ball game or sitting at an outdoor cafe with friends.|
by Ruger1 on 26 August 2011 - 03:49
|I use the command sit 99% of the time. I mean stay until I tell you to do something else or release you. However, I use sit wait when the sitting duration will be very short and/or we are not doing OB work. An example would be sit wait while I open the door to let you out/ sit wait while I set your food bowel down. I often wondered if this was a good idea, but Prince seems to understand the concept pretty well.....|
by Jeff Oehlsen on 26 August 2011 - 06:28
It is the consistancy that is important.
I knew a lot of dogs when I was teaching group classes, that if the owner said sit, and forgot to say stay, that the dog would just follow. : )
That was when I started teaching the concept of sit means stay in a sit position.
If you are doing a specific sport or whatever, and there is an opportunity to add an additional command, then most people will take that opportunity. I teach wait as it's own command, like the dog is ahead of me and I say wait. I work on that, but not a lot, just so they get the idea.
New people get confused with this, but that is mostly because they have not gone through it before, and the "plan" in teaching a dog is not as firmly in their head as it is the second or third time.
by alboe2009 on 26 August 2011 - 21:33
|For me and my dogs sit means sit. Until another command. If it will be for a somewhat long or long period then it's a down, until they are released.|
by sueincc on 27 August 2011 - 16:37
|Hi Vixen I'm not sure if you were asking me another question, but I will try to clarify my response. In my sport, (schutzhund) sit means sit. Out of sight, in sight, no matter what, sit means sit. When I'm heeling, if I come to a stop my dog sits. Same thing with the dumbell, again no double command. When I pick up the dumbell I fuss to my spot. My dog stops & sits when I stop. No extra command to sit no extra command to stay. I throw the dumbell, then give the command to go pick up the dumbell. The send out is an out of motion exercise (I'm heeling forward then give send out command, no stopping), so the sit has nothing to do with this exercise.|
by steve1 on 29 August 2011 - 05:22
Has said it perfectly in her last post, If you give a command twice you can see the points being deducted as soon as you open your mouth to give the command again
by Vixen on 29 August 2011 - 08:58
|Thanks Sueincc for clarifying, it appears very similar then, except that rather than saying "Sit" (when the Steward calls for "last command"), I just say "Stay" - wanting a relaxed confident sit or down. Then only the "Wait" - for the dog ready to move. So similar to just commanding "Sit", I do prefer just the one command of Stay or Wait to indicate further information for the dog to think about.|
Thanks for sharing.
by steve1 on 29 August 2011 - 20:47
|The only time i do not use the word sit is when the Dog is on a Down and i move to its side I then tell the dog to Foot, and she comes up to the sitting postition at my leg, I wait a few seconds then give the command again to move forwards, If i am going to do the Sit excersise then i walk on then i tell the dog to sit which it does|
by Donnerstorm on 30 August 2011 - 11:17
|Stay is implied in all my commands, if I give you one I expect you to do it until I release you. I use wait like Jeff does if my dog is off leash and he is not in a fusz and he gets ahead of me I say wait and he knows that he can move around sniff but he can't go any further until I get there. If I want them to freeze instantly while moving or doing something I use blieb.|
by steve1 on 14 September 2011 - 05:06
|It all depends on what you want to do with the Dog regards work. if you are doing ScH then you use ONE word only as Sue has already said. sit means SIT and that applies until you give the Dog a sign to come up from the sit, Down means Down for as long as you want the dog to stay Down. No other words are used with the SIT or DOWN Commands. There is no need to use the word STAY or any other word with sit or down. the dog is already been told to sit or down so it should do as it is told with the single word.|
For instance i am putting the dog on a Long Down for around 10 minutes whist another is working on the field, i take the dog over to the spot i stop she sits without command. then i give her the single word i use to Down, she downs i walk away some 15 yards and stand behind a Blind, i can keep my eye on the dog but she cannot see me thats the way we use single words
by Two Moons on 15 September 2011 - 04:30
For me and my dogs who do not compete, Stay means stay put, no matter where, or what position my dog may be in at that moment, no matter what else is going on.
Yes they are expected to stay in the sit, or down position as well, goes without saying, but for us stay has its own meaning.
I also use commands, come and go that have different meanings.
There are countless words and phrases my dogs understand that are not commands.
And then there is the reading of the mind, things the dogs know without and sign, glance, or word spoken, no behavior to give away my thoughts.
One is better at this than the other two but they do feed off each others reactions and are usually together at these moments.
It is a joy to have a truly intelligent dog.
I often let them think for themselves which would not go over well in a competition but it's something I like to see in my dogs.
by steve1 on 15 September 2011 - 05:22
|No' there is a world of difference to Competition work than the training of just good well behaved Dogs around the family or taking out for walks. Commands are a basically a one word command|
and it is a completely different world of Obedience.
It is more precision work where the dogs and handlers lose points, In the world of ScH Obedience is everything without it the dog cannot win or get high scores. in that phase or Protection or even tracking so the dog has to be under control in everything so for me Obed is the be all and end all of the ScH sport and that is what i am working on at the moment with the Pup recall and even basic footing, We now do 10 steps off leash with him looking up at my face and in the correct postition at my left leg, this will not increase at all for some time and i work him against a wall, plenty of play inbetween short bouts of work in a small area.
by pwillc on 19 October 2011 - 00:25
|only here in the us people use the second comand stay or wait - in the schutzhund world|
nobody use this.
there is no reason anyway they dog in sit or down is not able to do anything he has to
wait for a second command.
whatever i tell him/her.
by Nans gsd on 19 November 2011 - 23:33
|And if your dog breaks the wait or stay command? What do you do? My girl keeps pushing and pushing me; now I am pissed as she is NOT listening and taking me serious. Any recommendations?|
by alboe2009 on 20 November 2011 - 03:27
For me, if my dogs are heavy obedience than I give a correction and put them in the Poston/command three CORRECT times in succession. Not sure if your girl (didn't reread the posts) is a pup or adult? But my instances were mostly done/taken care of in puppy hood. But even now years later if something isn't "perfect" out comes the leash and it's classroom time!
Just yesterday, I had the whole gang in class due to hunting season getting ready to start. This will be the youngster's first hunting season.