Main > What's the longest duration you've had between pups being born? (19 replies)

by Jenni78 on 10 April 2010 - 15:04

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Who on here has had an unusual timeframe for delivery of pups, specifically pups who appear premature/may have been conceived on different days? Someone just told me of a litter they had with 3 normal pups and 3 that were tiny and hairless- clearly premature.

Have you ever had a long delay between the groups of pups born?

Got into a debate about this and can't find much in terms of concrete facts. There is much argument over the theories on premature pups, conception dates, etc. Figured someone on here would have some input or could share a story.

by dmsharkey on 10 April 2010 - 15:04

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First of all, you dont get seperate eggs ovulated on seperate breedings. Eggs are ovulated, the eggs mature, if sperm is present, they are then fertilized. Read up on the canine heat cycle!!! Once the bitch goes into labor, it can take a couple hours to several hours. Depends on the size of the litter. Hopefully you have done an x-ray so you know how many pups she is carrying and when she will be done. Any x-ray done after 50 days gestation should show pups. The later the better. The bone in the pups is more solid and shows up better on the x-rays. Read up on some FACTS about the canine heat cycle and whelping pups.

by crhuerta on 10 April 2010 - 15:04

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One litter born year 2008 December......mother went 13 hours between the first 6 puppies and the last 2.
She had NO stress, no contractions and no distress......they simply weren't ready to be born.
The only other female I can remember was about 10 years ago......she would normally have 1 puppy, 30 mins later..2nd.....then go 4 hours before the next couple....then repeat, if there were additional puppies. SHE always made me cringe!
However;....she was strong, and never had a problem whelping (despite my nervousness).
I don't panic anymore (knowing the bitch of course)...up to 4 hours between whelps.
Luckily....we have had only 2 c-sections in over 13+ years (both were imported, 1st time whelpers).....my husband (Carlos) is completely capable when it comes to whelping  & assisting birth of litters.
Hope all goes well for you!
Robin

by Jenni78 on 10 April 2010 - 15:04

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Dmsharkey, perhaps I wasn't clear, or you misunderstood my question, but that's not at all what I'm asking.

Robin, thanks. That's what I was curious about. Talking on the phone this morning w/a friend- different patterns that seem impossible but have happened and were "normal." Capri did that to me on her last litter- had in the early evening, went to bed, had 6 more the next day. I could've killed her. Of course I got no sleep that night, lol. But she was fine and all 9 were fine!

Robin, what's your take on the theory of premature pups in a litter w/normally developed pups?

BTW, Capri is doing fine, thanks;-)

by crhuerta on 10 April 2010 - 15:04

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Jenni.....personally, I believe that they are all conceived at about the same time.  I think eggs "drop" within a certain time, and the sperm fertilizes them or not....depending on the viability of both the egg & sperm.
I think "pre-mature" sized puppies are the cause of slower development within the womb....perhaps, because they are weaker from the start of conception.
But this is only my opinion, I am sure that others have different thoughts on the matter.
Respectfully,
Robin

by Schaeferhund on 10 April 2010 - 15:04

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I know a female, she had 5 pups and then 1.5 DAYS later another one. All healthy and top fit.

by crhuerta on 10 April 2010 - 16:04

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BTW...since it is possible for a litter to be sired by multiple sires.....I think it would be possible for the eggs to be "dropped" over a duration of a day or so....but I can't find "facts" to support more time than that.....again, JMO.
Robin

by Jenni78 on 10 April 2010 - 16:04

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Schaferhund, INTERESTING! That timeframe works w/what Robin says, too.

I find this stuff fascinating.

by 4pack on 10 April 2010 - 17:04

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Did she stop at 3 Jen?

X-rays are a waste of time, they rarely give you the correct number.

by Jenni78 on 10 April 2010 - 17:04

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Oh, I think Capri's done, 4Pack. Someone suggested that she may not be which was what sparked the discussion about this in the first place.

I took an xray last time just to get a rough idea since it was her first litter, and it was accurate. I didn't bother this time. They have as many as they have and no more, lol.

All are doing great- Capri is her normal self.

by Kalibeck on 10 April 2010 - 17:04

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Kali had 6 pups over the course of about 10 hours & then had 1 more pup a little more than 24 hours after starting labor. This pup was  much smaller than the rest of the pups, & slower, had to be started on formula & encouraged to suckle, but once she got started she caught up quickly, & is now a 2 year old monster! When we had x-rays done, the vet counted 6 pups, as we looked at the x-ray, I saw what looked like another spine, way back toward the middle of the abdomen, over a handsbreath away from the other pups on  the film. I asked the vet, "Is that another pup?" He said, "I hope not! If it is, it probably won't survive." Well....it took Kali a while to whelp that last pup, & I can only assume that it was because it was so far back, way up in the horn of the uterus. And I would love to read more on canine reproduction, since someone suggested that, can they also suggest any good reference materials? Thanks! jackie harris

by ziegenfarm on 10 April 2010 - 18:04

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we haven't really done any breeding the past several years, but if i recall correctly there were a few times that we went up to 8 hrs between pups.  generally it was 1-2 hrs between.  i believe anything born after 8 hour intervals was stillborn.
pjp

by crhuerta on 10 April 2010 - 18:04

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Although an x-ray isn't always completely accurate.....it still is a great tool when having a litter...(IMO)..I would always suggest & recommend one, close to whelp date.
Robin
BEST WISHES JENNI!....pictures later please!

by Jenni78 on 10 April 2010 - 18:04

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Why does everyone want pictures of them? They all look the same for a week or so, lol. You all know what they look like- moles. Squeaky little moles. One dark sable, one black, and one bicolored mole.

I have 2 w/rear dewclaws. What method does everyone prefer for removal?

by Sunsilver on 10 April 2010 - 18:04

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There are two possibilities re. a litter of this sort. One is that the pups MAY have been conceived at different times. I know this can happen in other species. With the cat, the act of intercourse is needed to stimulate ovulation. I know this is not the case with the dog, but I think it's still a possibility in rare instances that some of the eggs may be relased a few days behind the others.

The second, and more likely possibility is that the mom has a malformation of the uterus, so that one horn of the uterus does not get as much nutrients or blood as the other, therefore the pups don't develop as well on that side. But that wouldn't explain the being hairless. They would just be undersized.

Reproduction in animals is full of surprises. The strangest story I've come across concerned a  quarter horse mare I used to ride. She was sold to a horse dealer by her owner, because she had aborted her foal, and they couldn't get her to come into season again. At age 16, the owner assumed she was past the age where she could bear foals, so she got rid of her.

She was purchased on consignment by the stable where I was riding, as a possible school horse. She'd been out at pasture all winter, and was long-haired and unkempt.  The stable owner got some good food into her, and with the help of the students riding her, she began to lose that long, scruffy winter coat. Well, the more hair she shed, the rounder she began to look, and pretty soon EVERYONE was saying, "Gee, if I didn't know she'd lost her foal, I'd swear she was still pregnant!"

Finally, the stable owner had the vet do a manual pregnancy check. "Yup," he said. "I'd guess she's about two months away from foaling."

He said he figured...in a one in a million chance...she'd been carrying twins. In 99% of cases, one of the twins will be reabsorbed, then abort, and take the healthy twin along with it. In this case, the other twin survived.

About two months later, she procuced a healthy male foal. The stable owner was over the moon, and couldn't stop smiling.

The horse's original owner was LIVID!! 

by Jenni78 on 10 April 2010 - 19:04

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Interesting story, Sunsilver!

I think lots of things are possible and whenever someone says something to do with nature is impossible, I raise an eyebrow. ;-)

by LAVK-9 on 10 April 2010 - 19:04

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Well with the dew claws...have them done now.I waited too long and had issues with the sutures busting open.I cleaned and wrapped it everyday and then it healed so well. Had 3 females in the litter 1 had no back dew claws,1 had one dew claw and the other had both dew claws.They came from Dar.He had them when he was a pup but the breeder had them removed before I got him. My friend(a vet) did a better job on the puppy with kitchen scissors in her kitchen then the vets did on Dar at the vet clinic.

by B.Andersen on 10 April 2010 - 19:04

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Get a good pair of surgical scissors and cut them off on day 3. Mom will take care of the bleeding and they will heal up perfect.

by shepherdmom on 10 April 2010 - 20:04

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A co-worker of mine with a Sheltie dropped her bitch off to be bred and was bred several times throughout the week she was there.  She whelped the pups a week before they were due.  There were 5 pups total, 2 small but thrifty pups, 1 stillborn, 1 died shortly after birth, and 1 that was very underdeveloped and appeared to the veterinarian to be about 3-5 days younger than the 2 other live pups.  That pup survived with a lot of help from the breeder and needed to have corrective surgery on it's elbows because they weren't developed properly.

by Jenni78 on 11 April 2010 - 00:04

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Shepherdmom, that's yet another case where the 'impossible' seems to have happened.

Lauren, I will do it myself, provided no one turns me in for practicing as a vet, lol. I have also heard 2-3 days is perfect.

Thanks, all.

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