Main > Lowest fat Kibble? (22 replies)

by GSDkatrina on 14 April 2009 - 15:04

Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 04:13 am
Hi everyone,

My GSD Kaiser is on a low fat diet- he is not over weight - he will be 4  Oct 19th-and gets tons of exercise- BUT the advice I got from another board for all dogs is-Wellness Core Reduced Fat just to be assured they don't get too  much fat in their diet.

Kaiser was on that which ( for me) is expensive but the vet gave me Purina  OM to try-
I cook chicken brown rice and strip all the skin and bones from the chicken-add fat free chciken or beef broth and really mush it all together-then each feeding ( twice now)I put two  tablesppons in the kibble daily so each bowl equals one cup or so..

I don't mind the cooking I like to cook for them--but is there a comparable  kibble out there that cost less than my mortgage????

Thanks:)

Katrina

by OGBS on 14 April 2009 - 17:04

Posts: 1159
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 07:26 pm
Katrina,
To the best of my knowledge that is the lowest fat kibble on the market.
It is also one of the best made low fat kibbles produced.
My question is, why are you worried about your dog having such a low fat content in his diet?
If your dog gets plenty of exercise this should not be a big concern. Proper exercise should keep your dog lean, especially when it is in the prime of its life like your dog.
Dogs require a certain amount of fat and, in my opinion, the only reason to go to an extremely low fat diet is for medical reasons or a dog that rarely gets exercise.

by yellowrose of Texas on 14 April 2009 - 17:04

Posts: 9414
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 03:25 am
I disagree. GSD need fat in their diet and they need plenty of omega three.  YOu get those thru fish oil, feeding salmon, or fish oil.

I would never put a gsd on a diet food or limited fat at 4 yrs. old..The dog needs high fat or his body and skin and hair will be depleted.

Unless he has kidney or epi or some major health issue, a low fat diet is not for any of my gsd, which are working lines purely high drive and won;t stand around looking at me.

I have never had an over weight gsd because that is YOUR fault if your dog is overweight..You are the one feeding and you are the one putting the food on the ground.

I dont use pans , my dogs eat off the grass or off the floor of kennel.

RAW MEAT , CHICKEN OR LIVER OR GROUND BEEF ALSO ARE NECESSARY FOR FAT CONTENT AND FOR NATURAL vITAMIN C
Sunshine MIlls makes an excellent dog food and I use it with raw meat added.., greens juice, spinach juice or rice added on days I cook it.  I also feed cottage cheese and yogurt as a treat. , which gives some natural calcium  . Greens or green beans mixed in food also provide nutrition you cannot beat.
Nurture Heavenly Harvest Holistic dog food     go to   www.sunshinemills.com/index.php?  They have a toll free number to ask where in the town you live you can purchase it.

they have other foods also under another name they can tell you in your town...corn free, wheat free and soy free.


raw eggs if they are yard eggs only.

Yr

by Mystere on 14 April 2009 - 17:04

Posts: 5070
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 03:07 pm
quote:
raw eggs if they are yard eggs only.



What are "yard eggs"?

by AnjaBlue on 14 April 2009 - 17:04

Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 04:59 pm
A dog's system is designed to handle fat - and quite a lot of it. To take that out of the diet for no good reason is, in my opinion, very unwise. I don't know what other Board gave that advice, but unless you misunderstood what they were trying to say I would disregard it entirely. I feed raw, and use (among other things) pork, the fattiest beef I can find, lamb, duck - all very fatty meats. My dogs thrive on it. If you switch to the kibble you are considering I think you will see some undesirable side effects, starting with the coat......

by JenM66 on 14 April 2009 - 18:04

Posts: 32
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 08:46 pm
Why is your vet recommending Purina OM if your dog is NOT overweight? Does your dog have a medical problem where he needs a low fat diet? Does he have SIBO or EPI?? If not, a regular food in proper amounts (based on calories not cups as all food have different caloric values) is what is best for your dog. For example, my dog is roughly 74 pounds, fairly active although not involved in any sport as of now, and she is getting approx 1200 calories per day. I used to have a formula. If I can find it (my computer crashed and I lost all sorts of documents) I'll post it.

by funky munky on 14 April 2009 - 18:04

Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:09 am
GSDkatrina, if that is your dog in your avatar he looks very healthy to me, looks like a lovely coat condition, so whatever you are doing keep doing it. liz

by GSDkatrina on 14 April 2009 - 18:04

Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 04:13 am
Hi everyone,
Thanks so much for all your suggestions-Kaiser does have  ideopathic epilepsy and he had a  first seizure  last  June and one a month since then for several months he had one each month like clockwork for 2 minutes then gone.
He has been seizure free now for 3 months today-that is why the Guardian Angels ( EPI Board) suggested he have the lowest fat possible. The founder of the board said that fat would be deadly to my dog.
 My vet hopes to wean him of the PB soon!!  He is also on KBr and gained a bit ( 5 pounds) and he does not want him to gain any more even though he is the right weight-he wants him on the lower side.

I should have mentioned medical reasons but thought it was a good idea in general to keep lowfat.
I give them marrow bones at night-I am sure that is not so good either. I just got back from a 2 hour walk and play on the beach-I want him to live a long and healthy life as long as he can:)
Thanks
Katrina and Kaiser

by GSDkatrina on 14 April 2009 - 18:04

Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 04:13 am
Hi everyone,
Thanks so much for all your suggestions-Kaiser does have  ideopathic epilepsy and he had a  first seizure  last  June and one a month since then for several months he had one each month like clockwork for 2 minutes then gone.
He has been seizure free now for 3 months today-that is why the Guardian Angels ( EPI Board) suggested he have the lowest fat possible. The founder of the board said that fat would be deadly to my dog.
 My vet hopes to wean him of the PB soon!!  He is also on KBr and gained a bit ( 5 pounds) and he does not want him to gain any more even though he is the right weight-he wants him on the lower side.

I should have mentioned medical reasons but thought it was a good idea in general to keep lowfat.
I give them marrow bones at night-I am sure that is not so good either. I just got back from a 2 hour walk and play on the beach-I want him to live a long and healthy life as long as he can:)
Thanks
Katrina and Kaiser

by GSDkatrina on 14 April 2009 - 19:04

Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 04:13 am
Hi Liz,
yes that is my Kaiserin the avitar-and that is what he looks like today . add a coupkle pounds but basically the same-his coat is the same as well. I am trying to do the best I can for him-I was devastated when he had seizures-I never had a GSD with  them.
They ran all kinds of tests and now thousands of dollars later and all these tests every three months he still is the same very active healthy ( to a point) GSD and I will  love him and care for him with no regrets for the rest of his life and go without just to get him the best that I can. He is my boy!!
Thanks for the tips.
Katrina and Kaiser

by GSDkatrina on 14 April 2009 - 19:04

Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 04:13 am
Hi Liz,
yes that is my Kaiserin the avitar-and that is what he looks like today . add a coupkle pounds but basically the same-his coat is the same as well. I am trying to do the best I can for him-I was devastated when he had seizures-I never had a GSD with  them.
They ran all kinds of tests and now thousands of dollars later and all these tests every three months he still is the same very active healthy ( to a point) GSD and I will  love him and care for him with no regrets for the rest of his life and go without just to get him the best that I can. He is my boy!!
Thanks for the tips.
Katrina and Kaiser

by GSDkatrina on 14 April 2009 - 19:04

Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 04:13 am
ooops .........


sorry about the double posts-each time I refreshed my page it posted twice:(

by kioanes on 14 April 2009 - 19:04

Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 09:12 pm
just curious....  did you abbreviate epilepsy as epi?  fat for a dog with epi ( exocrine pancreatic insufficiency) is very bad as they cannot digest it.  maybe they think your dog has epi, not epilepsy?

by GSDkatrina on 14 April 2009 - 19:04

Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 04:13 am
just curious....  did you abbreviate epilepsy as epi?  fat for a dog with epi ( exocrine pancreatic insufficiency) is very bad as they cannot digest it.  maybe they think your dog has epi, not epilepsy?

Yes, I did abbreviate it - EPI is how they abreviate it on the Canine Epilepsy Board.

by OGBS on 14 April 2009 - 19:04

Posts: 1159
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 07:26 pm
Katrina,
I have never heard of fat being an issue with Epilepsy. I am also a little confused because you mentioned the EPI board as having given you this info. EPI is Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency. This is a condition where the dog's pancreas does not produce enough enzymes to break down the food in the digestive system. Did you mistakenly go to the wrong web board? They would have surely recommend a low fat diet if your dog had EPI.

Grains can be devastating with Epilepsy.
If you are going to continue to feed kibble I would stay with a grain free kibble like Wellness Core.
The likely reason for a low fat diet recommended by your vet is that most pet foods contain too much grain which ends up being stored as fat in the body.
A doctor has actually developed a diet that I would strongly suggest that you look in to.
It is called the G.A.R.D. diet.  http://dogtorj.tripod.com/id16.html
It is used with humans and dogs and from what I have read many, many humans and dogs have become seizure free with this diet.

by hodie on 14 April 2009 - 20:04

Posts: 4423
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2003 01:48 am
The reason the fat is an issue in epilepsy is that the dog is not going to get exercised as much as he might otherwise for two reasons: 1) The medication he is on, at least until the lowest possible dose that will control the siezures is titrated will make the dog sleep more and lethargic when awake. Hopefully he will adjust to the medication and do fine and be more normal in some time. and 2) There is always the possibility that too much stimulus will bring on seizures. So this remains to be seen and Katrina will be keeping a log of any seizure activity as to when it occurs, what the dog was doing etc. Sometimes reducing stimuli, or reducing certain types of stimuli can be helpful in reducing the frequency of the seizures.

All in all, a normal low fat diet Katrina is probably sufficient. Most kibbles have around 11% at the lowest, until you head into the speciailzed and very expensive formulas. But, for example, Wellness canned foods only have 5% or other brands 8%. So if you really want to reduce the fat you can add those and reduce the amount of kibble or expensive kibble.

It sounds like you are on the right path with your dog. Follow your vets' advice and good luck. If you change anything, do only one thing at a time and give the change at least a full week to make associations more likely to hold up under scrutiny. Too many people change too many things too fast and just end up going around in circles.

by GSDkatrina on 14 April 2009 - 21:04

Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 04:13 am

OGBS,

The board that I joined a while ago is . and sorry for the confusion-I should have been more specific.

Hodie, You are  so right about that-and we have been doing that since last June!

Kaiser only had them when he was sleeping though never awake.

Yes- actually my husband is a perfect record keeper and he has not missed a seizure time/ duration - a medicine dose - he is right on 12 and 12 .
I pay careful attention to the pre-ictal ( never noticed one as he was always asleep) I have noticed the behavior after ( post ictal?) shortened tremendously as well as time went by.
Kaiser lost the lethargy after the first week of Pheno -he seems to tolerate the meds- his last panel was done last week and the vet said he was right where he should be range wise and liver and kidneys fine. He said better than he ever was as far as that goes.
I joined the EPI  list and have received all the best  they can offer-and am truly grateful to have them available for people and their beloved dogs.
 I wanted to ask this board to which I am grateful as well. I like any and all suggestions-I can get!!
 I own a German Shepherd-this is a German Shepherd Board-I wanted and still do-to learn all I can about this Canine Idiopathic Epilepsy and since  every dog is different -I am selfishly seeking all I can:)
Sorry for the confusion-but actually? I am still confused so I will go back and read the whole website on fat and why I need to keep it low!
Thanks so much...
All my best,

Katrina and Kaiser

by OGBS on 14 April 2009 - 21:04

Posts: 1159
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 07:26 pm
Katrina,
Please do report back about the low fat. I would be interested to know.
Good luck with Kaiser! He is lucky to have you.
I went through seizures with a six week old puppy a few years ago.
He was from a female GSD that I had rescued that gave birth to nine pups.
The vets at the emergency hospital wanted to euthanize. They thought he had a liver shunt.
I told them no way and paid the $900 for the over-night stay.
Took him to my vet in the morning. He had ingested a bunch a water while playing with his litter mates and a bunch of it went in to his lungs. His lungs could not keep up with the amount of oxygen needed by his brain and he started having seizures. I feel for you. They are horrible to watch.
We got him dried out and on anti-biotics. It took a few weeks to get him back to about normal.  It was interesting to see his mother, who was pretty much done with the pups at that point, take over and start caring for him again.
He is now a happy dog living with a Chicago Police Detective and his family.

by Luvmidog on 14 April 2009 - 22:04

Posts: 591
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 04:16 am
Katrina:

Always make it plain when you post about a dog whether you have a medical problem. Poster cannot give proper
help unless you make it fact. 

Yr did say unless you dog has a medical problem  She was a little suspicious, and she did make it
clear and she even mentioned   epi..

When a vet puts your dog on low fat, it usually indicated   kidney, or intestional problems or liver .

All directly follow together.

Vets are famous about pushing Science Diet or Purina.  I would look for other alternatives with care.



by yellowrose of Texas on 14 April 2009 - 22:04

Posts: 9414
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 03:25 am
Mystere:   You are so funny?

Yard eggs are eggs from private people, your neighbors, friends or farmers anywhere but a factory.
People raise them in their yard.

Commercially sold chicken and eggs are a laugh..ever known anyone who works at  Pilgrims Chicken or Tyson???

Eggs are almost artificial and the chickens are grown from peep peep   in three weeks and killed for your dinner table.

How about an egg shell of hormones, etc.

I like my eggs from the dirt, with bug, grass and whatever else comes naturally.




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