Main > Would you breed a dog with a slightly curly tail? (48 replies)
by Shezam1 on 19 March 2009 - 02:37
|I have always been given to understand that the reason why a straight tail is preferred in GSDs is because of it's importance in working abilities - it plays a major role in balance during quick turns like those required while herding. Because when at rest the tail hangs straight, from a "show" point of view it looks 'dead' and a tail with a slight curve (sabre tail) while at rest came to be considered desireable as it is more pleasing to the eye when a dog is stacked. JMO.|
by Gustav on 19 March 2009 - 03:12
|The Lierberg line(Bodo and Bernd) were known to produce dogs with the slight curl in the tail sometimes....probably one of if not the most important line of GS ever bred. No dog is perfect and in moderation this type of tail is acceptable to me although without is preferable.|
by EKvonEarnhardt on 19 March 2009 - 04:39
|Funny that this thread came up. I was just talking about this with a friend. |
this dog tail is carried like this for balls and alert/protection work. it is said that while he is at rest it hangs normal
what do you all think of this one?
by zigzag on 19 March 2009 - 09:32
|Not sure if this pic downloaded.But if it did have you seen a tail like this? Run your hand down her tail and right before you get to the tip<about 2 inches> its like a 90* bend very noticable.would you breed a dog with a tail like this?Is it genetics?Breeder told me not to worry it woouldn't effect her in shows.|
by zigzag on 19 March 2009 - 09:34
|Damn, guess pic didn't download|
by Mystere on 19 March 2009 - 17:28
That's my girl's tail!! My previous bitch had a high tail-set, so when she was full of herself, although she didn't have a crook, it did curve like a scorpion tail to point to her mid-back.
by Horse30189 on 19 March 2009 - 19:36
by alaman on 19 March 2009 - 22:04
|Asko v.d. Lutter would not have been bred|
by Kalibeck on 19 March 2009 - 23:19
|Mystere, Yes, that's when she does it, when she's full of piss & vinegar! Yes it certainly brings to mind a scorpion, & she certainly packs a 'sting'! LOL jackie harris|
by labandr on 30 July 2009 - 16:59
Absolutely NOT! I am More than shocked at the number of people telling you to do so. There are already too many unethical breeders out there! Your dog has an obvious flaw & that trait will carry on somewhere down the line. Look at it like this... You have a job, task, whatever to do are you going to do it completely or half a**ed?? I would hope that you would say completely. By you breeding this dog with a flaw (as slight as it may be) it is still a flaw. There are way to many backyard & hobby breeders as is just spay or neuter your dog & know that you have a friend/family member for life. Cant you just be happy with that or do you have to be like countless others & try to make a buck?? It sickens me how many people say "I have a male & female I'm going to breed them & make money". They know virtually nothing if anything at all about the dogs backgrounds nor do they have knowledge of breeding. Okay with the exception of their childhood dog that got nailed by the mutt down the street & had a litter when they were 10. This makes for future dogs with health issues & flaws etc.. There are enough of them already. I spent over a year looking for a good Shepherd Breeder before I found one; & I looked everyday. Be a responsible contribution to the dog world & DON'T DO IT.
by Prager on 30 July 2009 - 19:08
|Are you kidding me? There is no simple answer and there are NO PERFECT DOGS out there. I would try to discourage one to breed such dog, but on the other hand show me a dog and I show you a fault. Curly tail is an aesthetic value problem. GSD is a working dog. I would not breed any dog with working problem. If your dog is an EXCEPTIONAL in EVERY OTHER working way. Breed him. But be honest. And make sure that you have place for dogs with curly tails which you place with limited registration. And You are duing this with purpose to improve some working quality and not for some sentimental reasons. Also keep in mind that there may be an exceptional dog of the same quality with good tail. But if not...? Eliminating an truly exceptional dog from a gene pool for minor aesthetic fault is detrimental to the breed. Only an dilettante thinks that you must match two perfect dogs in order to get perfect litter. There is much more to it then that. You need to be looking on all the dogs on the pedigree and hopefully on their litter-mates too. Is curly tail all over the pedigree. Then maybe you should not breed it. Is this the only an exception there...? See the whole picture. I would not however breed average dog with curly tail. Only superbly exceptional one which has no available parallel. Example: I am selling dogs to Police and DOC many can not care less if the dog has tail at all. They are not going to breed them either. If I KNOW that I will produce super police dogs and some with curly tails I will do it. I may keep the one supper pup without curly tail and breed it to another quality dog which is known for normal tails in his background and so on. The operative word is exceptional dog in any other working trait though. Just an opinion of an old Czech guy.|
by Princess on 30 July 2009 - 22:16
|Meet standards and then go from there, the tail doesnt make or break the dog but does make dogs who could end up in a bad place from a breeder who doesnt want the trait , good dogs cant chose their tails, go fiquire? Working dogs who cares? show dogs??? Give me a good dog with good lines and if he curls his tail when alert or happy i dont care, Im sure it is cartilage or bone, both I would be OK with if he did his job and was balanced. We have a problem with washed out ,blue, ect.. so just stick to standard the rest get to good homes.|
by dogshome9 on 31 July 2009 - 01:31
My answer is NO
This is an 6 month old puppy that I kept from my last litter kept as a show prospect, at around the age 4 or 5 months she started to screw the end of her tail when excited
When I looked at her I did see a beautiful dog but most of all I saw a very faulty tail and therefore not a breeding prospect.
Neither parent or grandparents had a faulty tail carriage.
She is now placed in a loving pet home.
First photo at 12 weeks
2nd age 6 months
by Prager on 31 July 2009 - 19:09
|First you must determine why to breed GSD. It is not a show dog and it is not a sport dog. IT IS A WORKING DOG!|
Show and to a degree sport are damaging to the breed. Beauty of a Shepherd is derived from his ability to work. It is a beauty of an athlete. (Max von Stephanitz)
How does a small imperfection of a curly tail influences the dog's ability to WORK as a Police dog, S&R, handicapped support dog, Military sentry, protector of single women, explosives detection, companion, family protector, security K9, drug detection dog, herding dog, dog for blind, .....?! Not at all! Tail? Yes it should not be curled, but there is 5 hundred things first and then there is long time nothing and then there is a tail to worry about. Before you worry about tail worry about , temperament, hips, elbows, teeth, courage, missing testicles, spine, defense drive , prey drive, herding instinct , longevity, shyness, total concept of structure................then there is five millions of miles of nothing and then there is a tail. If your dog is perfect in all these aspects described above, but your dog has funny tail, go ahead and breed him and worry about eliminating that minuscule problem and you do that by breeding him with a dog who has perfect tails in his pedigree, but must also be a great working dog.
Look here is a picture of a perfect structure of a GSD as it was proclaimed by Max Von Stephanitz the creator of the breed. His name was Klodo von Boxberg. It is quite obvious that this dog could run! Compare it to some of the overangulated mutants of today. I am not saying not to worry about tail, but there so much more to worry about.
by soulehunde on 31 July 2009 - 20:02
|A curly tail can be simply faulty or depending on the degree of curl disqualifying. The high carriage of of a tail while excited is not faulty however if that is how the dog carries the tail always it is faulty.|
remember the important mantra " form follows function." the purpose of a sufficiently long and full tail hung properly off of the dogs croup is to counter balance the head of the dog when executing fast turns.Too much curve, not enough length, too poorly angled croup all work in conflict of this.
All the drive in the world has a poor home in a body that cannot bring it effortlessly to the field.
Just MHO John
by Prager on 31 July 2009 - 20:33
John (solehunde) Are you saying that overangulated show dogs are moving effortlessly? All this is a theory. You must see the whole picture. "Slight" kink on the tail is not going to make dog have a conflict with cutting curve for lack of counter balance:).
by luvdemdogs on 31 July 2009 - 20:53
|On the day that we can excise or cut the exact gene that produces an undesireable, but non-health related trait, then I would be comfortable in a breeding program that does that through direct test tube type gene manipulation. Unfortunately, one does not know what other possibly positive genes are being cut out of the gene pool, when an undesireable, but non-health related trait is kept from the gene pool. Ergo, in my view, we simply will never know what positive health or longevity genes have already been bred out of the breed because they were linkied to undesireable visual traits. If the dog is from a line of long lived, healthy dogs, free of cancer or joint problems, and has all of the other positive traits, I would think it foolish in the extreme to eliminate it from the gene pool for breeding. |
'Course I own and promote whites, so my opinion is worthless, LOL!
by luvdemdogs on 31 July 2009 - 20:54
|Hodie!! Is that really you? It's GREAT to see you posting again!|
by soulehunde on 31 July 2009 - 21:21
No I am not saying that. I am saying that each part of the dog serves a purpose and no part should be overlooked. The German Shepherd tail is extremely important to the overall movement of the dog. Therefore it needs to be correct like all other parts need to be. And by using the term overangulated you have all ready told me the dog is incorrect.
My dogs are working line dogs with all the faults and flaws that come with those lines.That said I would not trade them for a fabulously structured show dog who could not exist on the trial field. There are other people who see it the exact opposite from me and neither of us is right or wrong just different points of view.
I am leaving right now for the airport in Boston to pick up 2 Salztal Hohe puppies.
by DebiSue on 31 July 2009 - 21:23
|No, luvdemdogs, that is an old post. I too got excited when I saw Hodie's name but that was before the jerk ran her off. Heavy sign interjected here.|