Main > Roach back (56 replies)

by Vinegarjoe on 10 February 2009 - 14:02

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So here is a photo of my boy.  4 1/2  months old  in this photo. He is a Karats Ulko son. 

 Is he "roach" backed ? or is this just a growing stage he is going through ? 

Thanks for any info.



 

 

by GrassDog on 10 February 2009 - 15:02

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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 02:09 pm
HI   Is that how his back looks all the time.  Take a picture with his head up. Maybe then  we can see what he really looks like  B

by Vinegarjoe on 11 February 2009 - 13:02

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Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 04:35 am
Here are a few more images of Gunther, perhaps these views will enable a better opinon of whether or not he has a "roach" back.

Also, is the white patch of hair in the center of his chest a fault ?? 

Thanks for any/all info.

Vinegarjoe















by july9000 on 11 February 2009 - 14:02

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Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 02:35 pm

 YES HE IS ROACH BACK..

AND NO IT IS NOT A FAULT...THEY ARE ALOUD TO HAVE A WHITE PATCH IN THE FRONT.

by BRADY BEE on 11 February 2009 - 14:02

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In the photos he does appear to have a roach back, but the other thing I noticed, was that he looks so unhappy. Go on cheer him up !!!!!!!!!!!!

by jletcher18 on 11 February 2009 - 14:02

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Unhappy? To me he looks to be in pain.

Who is the breeder? Are they still trying to convence you this is normal?

JoAnn

by Vinegarjoe on 11 February 2009 - 15:02

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Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 04:35 am
Thanks for the input.

Gunther is not unhappy nor is he in pain. How you infer that he is unhappy or in pain from the images is, well, your opinion.

I have not (yet) contacted the breeder regarding the "roach" back issue. Sadly, upon reviewing the contract that I signed, unless he is diagnosed with a diabiliting condition,I am out of luck. besides, we love him to death and would never return him.

As far as this "roach" back issue goes, what are the possible long term effects ? 

Again, where do you get the "unhappy" or "in pain" from the images ? I am curious. I guess I don't have the trained eyes that you folks possess.

Thanks again though.

Vinegarjoe

by july9000 on 11 February 2009 - 16:02

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Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 02:35 pm
 I don't necessarily think that having a roach back is debilitating..he will probably have no issue at all from that..

Maybe if he were working sheep for a long time this would have an impact..not for a family dog..good luck

by Mystere on 11 February 2009 - 21:02

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I agree  with Joann, the puppy appears to be in pain.   That is what is reflected in the photos.  Dogs tuck their bellies, lifting their backs like that, when in pain.   These dogs are bred to "carry on," even while in pain.  Plus, dogs can be stoic about a hell of a lot more pain than humans would endure.   That is why we, particularly folks actively involved in training performance events, must be very, very vigilant.   A dog in pain will work, and work well, never giving any  MAJOR indication that it is in pain until later.  Dogs have worked at high levels with teeth that have cracked and become infected, with the handler not really picking up that something was  seriously wrong , until it might be too late.  That's just an example.

by Vinegarjoe on 11 February 2009 - 22:02

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Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 04:35 am
Mystere-

Thank you for your input. However in regards to my boy, He is not in pain, and I take offense to the tone of your reply infering that I am not a "dilligent" owner.

He is teethig right now, and I have been inspecting his mouth twice a day to make sure there are no issues with his teeth.

Gunther was at the vet (and our vet has 30 years of experience with GSD's and is a Cornell graduate)  on 5 February and was pronounced a healthy, normal pup, with loads of energy.

These images were taken over the past few days, in the morning during his first trip outside, right after waking up.

The reality of the situation is my boy may simply be "roach" backed and currently has a soft left ear.

He eats well, He gets plenty of exercise, he has more energy than he knows what to do with, We shower him with attention and take him everywhere we go. He is current with all vaccinations,
 
We don't give him any people food. And if anything, we are overly cautious with him, watching him all the time, never letting him out of our sight, except when he is in his crate.

Our trainer sees him every Monday evening and thinks he is a great boy.

So, why you and a few others are indicating that my dog is in pain, is well..... beyond me.

Thank you again, though, for your input.

Vinegarjoe

by sueincc on 11 February 2009 - 23:02

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 He is only 5 months old and the ear stood before he started teething?  There is a good chance the ear will come back up. Both the FCI and SV standards mention small inconspicuous white marking on the chest is permitted but not desirable.  It is not uncommon for the white on chest and toes to fade out and almost disappear as puppies mature.

 As far as his back, I would get a second opinion.  The fact that  your vet has treated GSDs for 30 years and went to Cornell does not make him infallible, unfortunately he is human and therefore can make mistakes or errors  in judgment.

by SchHBabe on 11 February 2009 - 23:02

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OMG! Even if the puppy is "physically healthy" and pain-free, how could anyone consider it normal and acceptable for a GSD to look like an inchworm on the move? Forget the small white patch... that's meaningless... if that were my pup I'd be seeking out a spine specialist! Hopefully the dog can live a long and loved life despite this deformity. At least he's in the hands of someone who loves him.

by jayne241 on 11 February 2009 - 23:02

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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 05:17 am
 Hi Joe,

Well I'm certainly not "experienced" either (no titling or shows or anything) but he looks unhappy or in pain to me as well.

I guess the best way to describe it would be by comparing to photos of other dogs - running, leaping, playing in the snow; or standing still, head up, ears forward (even if weak), alert expression, eye contact.

For example (and I'm in no way connected with this dog, I hope this is ok; I'm presenting this as a good comparison):

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/picturegallery/8402.html

How is your dog's movement?  Can he run and jump?  Does he want to, or does he have to be coaxed?

I'd sure like a second opinion from a vet.

by JRANSOM on 12 February 2009 - 00:02

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VinegarJoe,

I did not see where Mystere implied that your weren't being a "diligent owner". 
What she said was,  " That is why we, particularly folks actively involved in training performance events, must be very, very vigilant.  "
Sorry, but it also looks to me like in the photos that he is in pain or unhappy but that is a still and I am not there to see his puppy antics and zest for life.

Jen

by dogshome9 on 12 February 2009 - 00:02

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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 05:06 am

Hi Joe,

What I see here are poor photos, in every photo he is just standing not even 4 square, his hind feet are under his loin. Go out there with him and get some moving shots and show him just being a puppy having fun and you will see a puppy with a much better top line and a happier look on his face  .  or take some photos of him stacked and then we can gain a better opinion.

PS   My dogs also get that sad sack look on their faces when they see me coming with the camera.

 

by mirasmom on 12 February 2009 - 00:02

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All I can tell you is that isn't what I am looking for in a German Shepherd Dog,
he seems a bit crippled to me,

I am breeding dogs that can scale a 7 foot fence within seconds and still smile.

I am going to try and get a Schutzhund title on one of my dogs, but as it stands, right now

I am getting great feedback from people who have got dogs from me and some are very experienced

in training the GSD and some are beginners, but they have no question that their dog is the best,

my dogs I breed don't really have that much angulation.

In my personal opinion, I would not pair up his parents again and breed them.

I do repeat breedings, same 2 dogs over again if I like the results, I hate surprises.

I hate to say it, but the only time I have seen a dog stand like that is after he had been hit by an automobile

What you have is a happy healthy pup that doesn't know he is over angulated,

don't treat him any different, exercise him like a regular dog, and he'll be happy

by Xeph on 12 February 2009 - 01:02

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Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:08 pm
That dog isn't even CLOSE to overangulated.  He doesn't have much angle in the rear at all.  That is ALL his spine x.x

by MygsdRebel on 12 February 2009 - 01:02

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Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:46 pm
Before concluding the worst, try and get an appropriate stacked picture of him. It's hard to glean much about his confirmation in the posted photos.
-Emily

by Mystere on 12 February 2009 - 04:02

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Joe, You are being entirely too defensive. YOU asked about the pusp's back and you were given HONEST opinions, based on what YOU provided. In NO WAY did I implyl insinuate, or hint that you were less than diligent or negligent. Trust me, I will not respond to any of your inquiries in the future, because you obviously DO NOT want honest input, or opinions. You want an echo. I suggest that you simply speak into an empty tin can in the future, so you can hear what you want to hear more efficiently.

by atc237 on 12 February 2009 - 04:02

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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 09:42 pm
This is why asshole showline breeders should go to jail. Vine, i would have a specialist look at the dog and get an opinion

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