Main > Universal Sieger---Again/ Best Wishes to Karen & Ule (97 replies)
by SKI on 05 October 2008 - 23:41
But you pay the expense yourself to train the dog yourself. If you travel to a good club, not just any club, to work, plus travel to various club trials to get the BH, AD, SCH1-3, show rating and breed survey, it is not chump change. It does add up. Believe me, we do track expenses and all our dogs are HOT dogs. So we know the cost of training ouselves and traveling for events, from local to the WUSV/FCI. That is also why I was asking about the amount that was posted of about $8,000 for the two events. And we know people that do handle for owners - so we know that expense.
If you do pay someone else after the dog is titled/shown/koered, the dog must be boarded, plus the bonding time, plus the additional fees for training/bonding (if the dog is competition, show ready = more if not). That to me is where the additional cost is - transferring to another handler.
by DeesWolf on 06 October 2008 - 00:13
Yes, but if the dog is already a SchH3, seriously, other than polish, what does the dog truly need, especially if it has already been given a rating at the most recent SS and declared for universal. Unless it is a dog who isn't properly trained to begin with.
I just find it rather amusing that handler owner trainers of working line dogs don't have all these "extra expenses" and they don't have to get their dogs ready. Their dogs are ready. Just like with those handler owner trainers of show line dogs who do the work themselves.
by SKI on 06 October 2008 - 01:03
Good point. "Unless it is a dog who isn't properly trained to begin with."
But, I would not minimize the time and expense that a HOT handler does to get from a green dog to a SCH3, koer'd dog to one that is sent out for titling, showing. Why is it amusing? I am sure a lot of people that do HOT dogs (no matter what line) could show that it does take them time and $$. There was a great article by Pedro on what he did to focus on for the Sieger show and the Nationals - and he just touched on all the work. To get ready for any National event is not just tuning up.
I think it is commendable of the people that are going (not seperating working and show) that have trained and titled/handled the dogs themselves for Universal Sieger.
A professional trainer will have a set up that is much more time efficient (one would think - the ones that we know do) as in own/close club, helper, experience.
by TeMar on 06 October 2008 - 01:47
Karen & Ule finished the regionals with a 271 & third place. Not bad for a dog who has trialed 3 straight days.
Karen & Ule will be home tomorrow take a couple days off & back to training for the USA Nationals. There is still plenty of work & road ahead.
We have hope, it isn't over until its over. Karen & Ule are making us proud.
U Go Girl's
by DeesWolf on 06 October 2008 - 02:06
Congratulations!!!!!!!! That is outstanding!
by SKI on 06 October 2008 - 02:47
by Mystere on 06 October 2008 - 03:51
|Karen and Ule are doing the PNW proud!!! Glad I talked two clubs into sponsoring thst trophy, now!! :-) Congratulations, Karen. OUTSTANDING job!!|
by Mystere on 06 October 2008 - 16:35
We "officially" have a horse race this year for the Universal Sieger Title:
Karen & Ule
Ravi & Juneau
Ted and Zar
Now, where is that grey dog....
by ramagsd on 07 October 2008 - 03:41
From what I heard at the North Central Regionals--Ule is one fantastic tracking dog 98 on one day and then 100 WOW! Fantastic team
by Mystere on 07 October 2008 - 16:58
It just goes to show what can happen when one bothers to actually TRAIN a showline dog so that it can perform to its full potential. Ule was rasied, trained and titled to Sch 1 by Raino Fluegge (SV/Canadian judge), who had 90 acres of his own to track in every day. He has done the same with other show line dogs, Laius v Moorbeck, who twice went to the WUSV Championship and acquited himself well, being another example. When the show line dogs are raised and trained like working dogs their working abilities are developed. When thos abilities are neglected.... well. If you have a person with the greatest athletic and dance potential in the world, and it is NOT developed from a young age, it does not matter that everyone can see that the 25 yo in front of them could have been the greatest ballet dancer since Nureyev--the talent simply gets wasted, because you can't take a 25 yo with no dance background and make him into Nureyev. Ditto a show line dog that was shipped off "somewhere" for a "mystery title" at a "Midnight Trial" who comes back a titular Sch 3, and is thereafter just trotted around a show ring. You might be able to see the potential there, but if the dog is already 4 or 5, it is probably too late for it to ever show what it can really do. All you can do is set it up for failure...and disdain.
Thankfully, Ule, Juneau and Zar ended up in hands with the committment to let the dogs shine.
by Shelley Strohl on 07 October 2008 - 17:06
Super to learn that three teams have qualified this year. Wish I could be in Texas to cheer them on. We are hoping perhaps one day in future to be able to nominate Goofball Jed (vom Bullinger, VA Kevin x VA Germany) Jed is 100% show lines, but we haven't told him that yet. ;) Shhhhhh!
by DeesWolf on 07 October 2008 - 17:22
I couldn't agree more with you on this point! It is true, that there are probably a lot more high lines out there that can do outstanding work, but because they are raised and trained to be show dogs, we will never see what they could have been. It is my strongest wish that more people with high lines will begin looking for the dogs that truly are proven to be able to work, instead of just the ones that win the shows.
There is so much sense of accomplishment and pride when you take a puppy from day one, train it, title it yourself, I wish more people could feel that sense of pride. The time, energy, sweat, fear, worry, and stress is all worth it, in the end!
I am not one easily impressed by the majority of high lines, but I am very impressed with Karen & Ule, in regard to the fortitude and the ability for Ule to get back out there after just whelping and showing what she can do! On top of that, some pretty nice scores too!!
by Blitzen on 07 October 2008 - 17:28
Mystere, now that the bar has been raised for the showlines thanks to Karen, Ravi, and Ted, the best and most exciting days for these red and black dogs may lie ahead. More may be encouraged to challenge these dogs to actually prove what they are capable of accomplishing rather than just assuming that they aren't going anywhere since they are after all ONLY show dogs.
by DeesWolf on 07 October 2008 - 17:49
Blitzen, that would be nice! However, I don't think that will happen any time soon. The majority of money and "prestige" appears to be mostly associated with the show rating and not with the actual proven working ability of the dog.
But, isn't it nice to know that there are actually people out there trying to change the tides!
by Blitzen on 07 October 2008 - 18:03
I am always guilty of dreaming big, DeesWolf. It's truly a curse.
by vom Fallsview on 07 October 2008 - 18:21
First of all I want to wish Karen and Ule best of luck and I know they well do us all proud.
Mystere I want to point out that you were wrong is saying Ule was trained to Sch1 by Raino Fluegge.
She did some foundation training work with Raino at a young age but was trained to Sch1 by Cliff Day.
by Euro1 on 07 October 2008 - 18:59
You are correct vom Fallsview, the Flügge family raised Ule, Raino did some foundation work but with Herr Flügge being a judge, he had Cliff Day train & title Ule for Mary Dygert.
Ule’s scores were not the best, she received sufficient in protection her targeting was off she jumped on the helpers head not once but twice. Judge Grewe was the presiding judge for the event.
Karen has taken Ule back to ground level & trained her to the level Ule is now. With the help of her Delta SchH club and other supportive friends.