Main > Universal Sieger---Again/ Best Wishes to Karen & Ule (97 replies)
by Mystere on 02 October 2008 - 12:31
|Chris, Not bitter. I simply loath the dishonesty and deceit behind false declarations, such as several made regarding Universal Sieger. It trivializes the effoorts made by people like Ravi and Karen. Simple. I feel the same about people who lie about being HOT. Again, simple. I have made my point on that issue and I am not going to respond further to those who condone and excuse such behavior. I understand why you would condone and accept it, though. We simply disagree. Now, in the spirit of your green board, please stay on topic, which is kudos to those, like Karen, Ravi, and Ted, who made their declarations and followed through on them. I hope to see them all in Texas and will be cheering them all on!!|
by Blitzen on 02 October 2008 - 12:45
Ditto, Mystere. Kudos to all these owners and dogs that have made the grade this year. They are all winners!!
by Shelley Strohl on 02 October 2008 - 13:21
You are so right, Sunshine. The bond with a dog is EVERYTHING. Look how Carol was when I showed him in the working dog class in Pittsburgh shortly after I got him. He barely outed at the last minute because he felt like he was almost alone out there. A lot of dogs who fail bitework in the Sieger Shows fail because they don't even know their handlers, let alone have a strong bond. with them. (One of my biggest gripes BTW) A few months later he'd do anything for me. You can't force yourself on a strong, proud dog. I know that.
I only had Ronaldo here a few weeks. He was only just starting to seriously bond with me. Sure, he liked me fine, but one whiff of Randy and he all but forgot I existed no matter where we were. CONFLICT! I had to take videos of our practice to show what we'd accomplished because performance went right out of the window the minute he sensed his beloved owner. Can't fault a dog for that, and you can't fault the concerned owner for wanting to see their dog, although I don't normally allow an owner to visit a dog I'm training until its ready to go home, for just that reason! The older the dog, the longer it takes to bond with him, especially if that dog has been loved day in and day out by its owner, not just thrown in a kennnel and hauled out to show or breed.
We tried. Time was not on our side. We only would have had 6 mos. at the outside to get ready for Texas. I think a year would have been just about right. Not everybody has time to take away from work and family to pursue their dreams for their kids OR their dogs. If they did, there would be a lot more kids home schooled. That's where I come in. No bad reflection on anybody, and certainly not the dogs.
by Mystere on 02 October 2008 - 13:22
|Exactly!! And those who tried and may end up a bit short are STILL winners and heroes!! They deserve every bit of recognition and respect.|
by Mystere on 02 October 2008 - 13:32
|It would be nice to have "something," some kind of recognition for all the Uni Si contenders who make it to Texas, and those who tried. What do you think (and how many are willing to contribute)? Ribbons? Certificates? Bottle of wine? ?|
by Blitzen on 02 October 2008 - 13:40
That's a great idea, Mystere. I'd donate to that project. I think a commemorative ribbon or plaque would be approporiate. These would be HOT dogs, right?
by Shelley Strohl on 02 October 2008 - 13:56
Surely they have trophies for Vice U/S and beyond? Some recognition is surely due for the nominees who make it to Texas.
by Mystere on 02 October 2008 - 14:06
|Karen and Ravi are HOT. Ted and Zar I think are not. Ted is the only one who has actually entered for the Nationals, thus far (deadline is later this month). I will check with Julia about entries that just may not be showing on the website, yet. I think we can get commemorative ribbons fairly easily, but would probably have to purchase more than the handful we'd need. What about getting whatever the minimum is and just not have the year engraved, so we can use the rest next year? :-)|
by Shelley Strohl on 02 October 2008 - 14:27
How about something to present at the awards ceremony, later to be engraved further and sent on to the recipient? Extras could be held over for future use.
by Blitzen on 02 October 2008 - 14:28
That sounds like a plan, Mystere. Does it matter if these dogs are HOT or not?
by Shelley Strohl on 02 October 2008 - 14:52
I don't think recognition should be limited to HOT dogs. My Carol was titled by his breeder, but I have had him for 5 years. If I had put all the time and effort into maling it to Texas with him, then saw only HOT teams being recognized for their efforts around me, I think I'd be more than a little discouraged and disappointed. "Special" recognition for HOT, of course, but complete exclusion of non-HOT teams being recognized. doesn't seem fair.
by Blitzen on 02 October 2008 - 15:43
That sounds like the right thing to do, Shelley. I don't really know much about this stuff, but do think it's a terrific idea to honor those who walk the walk. They should be recognized.
by Mystere on 02 October 2008 - 16:37
I agree. But, with respect to "special trophies" the host clubs usually leave the criteria up to the person(s) putting up the money. I sponsored the HOT trophy for years for USA national and regional events. Then, USA sponsored the first few HOT placements for a while. Now, it is pretty much back to individual sponsors. The other trophy I "typically" sponsor is Hight Scoring Bitch (my second favorite which I have sponsored this year, too), or (my personal favorite)"The Double X." XX is for the high-scoring female team. Some years, it went begging. But, so has the High Scoring Bitch. LOL That's why this year, I am having a piece of ss jewlery engraved with "XX" and taking it with me to the Nationals. If there is no one to give it to, I hold onto it for next year!. (The decision for it to be jewelry was after talking to some of the women competitors who compete with bitches and they all said they'd like that better than a trophy or plaque).
For the Sieger Show one year, I sponsored High Scoring V-rated, which went to the bitch with the highest title and score at a USA-trial within a year of the Show. There was also one for the comparable male. Sadly, there was only ONE candidate for each. The point it, it is up to those of us paying for it to decide on the criteria. I have only had one club ever refuse "special trophies."
So, who else is contributing to make this recognition happen, besides Blitzen and I?
by Blitzen on 02 October 2008 - 16:56
Mystere, I'll let all the details up to you and those who are familar with the Universal Sieger program. I'll help with a donation. I have always been very big on recognizing owner-handlers in the AKC show world and tried to support them for many years. Selfishly, I'd like to see additonal recognition reserved for HOT dogs, but I don't know if that would be fair or not. I know how hard it is to win in the AKC showring with an owner-handler dog and training one's own dog to Universal Sieger has got to be the ultimate achievement in the world of working GSD's . Everything else seems to pale in comparison.
by Mystere on 02 October 2008 - 17:05
Well, making it to the World Championship with a HOT is a biggie!! That takes a few years of dedicated training, travelling, making at least two national championships, plus a regional, months-worth of your life tracking (my least favorite phase), and all the attendant expenses, while working for a living and to maintain this expensive "hobby." Your competition is most often professionals with "bought" dogs.
Now, making it to the World Championship, with a HOT that is also Universal Sieger....THAT would be the ultimate!! IF the Canadians don't revert to the "Canadian-only "rule...
by Mystere on 02 October 2008 - 22:01
Karen and Ule are competing in the host-club's club trial tomorrow and the regional championship on the weekend.
Please send her good thoughts, well wishes and hopes that t he schutzhund gods are smiling, so she qualifies tomorrow and will then not be pressured at all during the regionals. She only has to "participate" in the regionals; they don't have to achieve a qualifying score there.
by VonIsengard on 02 October 2008 - 22:35
This thread turned into exactly what I thought it would the moment I saw it posted. Too funny. TessJ10, you took the words right out of my mouth.
Best of luck to everyone participating.
by AnnikasMom on 03 October 2008 - 00:34
I also would like to extend my best wishes to Karen and Ule, to all who are competing for U/S for that matter! I am partial though to an all "girl" team as I hear to often about how females can never present the same "power" that a male can. I get it to some extent but without these females there would be no males! Sorry, small rant...
Quoted from Deeswolf "I guess if you have a HOT dog it is a lot easier and way less expensive to meet the requirements for Universal Sieger."
Does that mean we can hope to see you and Gipsi going for U/S next year? You are also one of my fav all "girl" teams!! Love the dog that can work and looks good while doing it!
Grass Valley, CA
Vom Herrenhaus German Shepherds
by jletcher18 on 03 October 2008 - 05:35
LMAO, participation ribbons/trophies,,,,, this is starting to sound like Little League _________ ( you name the sport).
nobody goes home empty handed. everybody is a winner. even the losers get to show off that they ALMOST did something. what a joke.
how about this for an idea. lets not DECLARE anything. get your butt in the ring, get your dog on the field and show us what you have.
the continuation of everyone wanting something for nothing will only make the sport of schutzhund and the ring work all that more less apealing.
as the many sticker i have read state so nicely,,,"SHUT UP AND TRAIN"
are we not trying to keep the GSD at a higher standard than what most people call the "american shepherd"? it seems to me that the organizations are only concerned with the bottom line. keep people in the sport and ring, because that keeps dollars coming in to the organization. this can be seen in the SV, USA, GSDCA-WDA.
if my statements are that far off base, than can someone please explain to me why it is when we speak of our dogs we use terms like working line, show line, american breed, german breed, ddr, etc?
my fear is that we have gotten so far off base from what the German Shepherd Dog should be, that we may never see it all come back together again.
by Mystere on 03 October 2008 - 12:07
|John, The point of the Universal Sieger title is to exemplify the working ability and structure of what a gsd is supposed to be. (Please note that I did not say golden middle). The fact is that people with show line dogs that they train and title should be encouraged. They are outside of the "norm" (shipping a dog off to Germany for phoney titles in "Midnight Trials" and shipped back to their owners to be trotted arpund the ring ad infinitum). How many show lline dogs do you ever see on the trial field, versus the numbers you see in the show ring? Why not encourage those who get out and train, trial and strive to achieve things like Universal Sieger? At the same time, it is nice to see working folks showng the working line dogs also have proper structure. No, I don't think that giving recognition to the less-than-a-handful of show folks with the gumption to "get out there" is treating them like kids in Little League. It is acknowledging the time, effort, finances and HEART it took to make (or try ) their declaration something other than empty words. In Karen's case, that means trvelling from British Columbia to San Jose to show the bitch, the consistent training in a hard-core working schutzhnd club, trialing and titling, travelling to Wisconsin to fulfill the regional participation requirement, and finally to Texas from Canada to compete in the National Championship. You damn right she deserves recognition for that. Ravi also deserves recognition for his efforts, whether he utlimately makes it to Universal Sieger, or not. Hell, he and Karen deserve the recognition, even if they don't make it to Texas. Funny, I have never heard any one has take that "Little League" attitude toward participation trophies before. They are not overly common in schutzhund, but not unheard of, either. Besides, we (Animules, Blitzen and I) can do whatever we damn well please with our own money. :-)|