Main > What are the responsibilities of a stud dog owner? (17 replies)

by Rugers Guru on 30 September 2008 - 20:09

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Besides the obvious. I know you need to keep your dog in great condition, blood panels, and OFA. Even recent titles in some cases, and a breed survey?  But what about after the breeding? I only ask because when all is said and done, and my boy is titled, OFA or VA'd, and has had all of his blood work; I have a couple of good breeding's that have pursued me. Just an inexperienced dumb question, sorry in advance.

Renee

by AKVeronica60 on 30 September 2008 - 21:09

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You should probably ask specific questions.  That would help someone with stud dog experience to answer you. 

Veronica

by Rugers Guru on 30 September 2008 - 21:09

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Is there any financial, or non financial responsibilities after a breeding takes place? Would I have obligations to a litter or a pup? I know I can take a pup in leu of a fee, but, I dont want to be a "dead beat dad" per se. I need to know if most  dog owners would like a call the next day or a check up? LOL I dont know the questions to be more specific.

by AKVeronica60 on 30 September 2008 - 21:09

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I'm on both sides of this, as I have sent my bitches off to be bred many times, and I also own a fairly expensive stud dog.

Test your stud for bruccelosis. 

I'd take one of the pups only if I wanted one from that bitch, and I had enough time for a pup.

You, as the stud owner, have no obligations to the litter, other than to report a genetic issue on the part of the stud if it became known to you after the breeding. 

Most stud owners say that the bitch owner must get two live puppies or the breeding is free, though you might charge something for your time and effort.

Bitch owners are often very worried about their girl away from home.  Frequent updates should be done to let them know that their girl is okay, and to let them know if you are having any problems. 

I'd build an escape proof kennel for visiting bitches.  Some bitches are escape artists.  Those escape artists are often worth a lot of money.  If the bitch were to escape and get injured...big vet bills would ensue, you might be out ten times the stud fee you would have recieved.  If she were killed, you suddenly find that bitch was worth $10,000....oops.

DON'T leave the stud and bitch alone to breed.  Be sure to hold one or both of them.  Use two handlers if the bitch is aggressive to the stud, and you might use a muzzle in that case too.  Both of them can be injured severely during breeding.  Again...it is most likely to happen to the most expensive bitch sent to you, or the one with the most pugilistic owner.  Or mostly likely, your stud is the one that will be hurt by an evil well bred bitch. 

For those who say "Breeding is natural, you don't need to hold them!"  Yeah, sure--one these bitches, when angry, can swing around and amputate a penis with one good bite.  Veronica

by Domenic on 30 September 2008 - 22:09

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OUCH,that hurt just reading it..

by SilverJudge on 30 September 2008 - 23:09

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Interesting, I plan on breeding my boy when he is health tested and titled. I will do all the necessary health testing as well as bloodwork and bruccelosis testing.

One thing that I will do...is stay in touch with the bitch owner and the puppy buyers. I want to know where my dog's pups went and what they're doing now, health issues if ANY and if they're competing etc. I also won't breed to a bitch if the owner is against keeping in contact with me. I want to know what's going on with my dog's progeny and make damn sure they go to good homes, which is a moot point since I won't breed to a bitch whose owner I don't trust.

I also agree with not letting them breed unattended. Hold the bitch and make sure that nobody gets hurt.

I will go a little farther than most stud dog owners as I want to know where and what the progeny is doing and what they're like.

Breeding is a LONG ways off for me and I hope that I can find bitches of the same quality or BETTER to breed my dog too. Hopefully there are bitch owners out there that feel the same about a stud dog owner keeping in touch with them and the puppy buyers.

Courtney

by dogshome9 on 01 October 2008 - 01:10

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Courtney, I take my hat off to you, You sound like you will make a very responsible stud owner.

As an owner of breeding bitches I remain in constant touch with my puppy buyers, they are all very happy with that and email me with photos as they grow and let me know how training is going etc. I would also want to know of any health problems, that is if they were to crop up. As I have only bred 4 litters so far so good.

 

by Rainhaus on 01 October 2008 - 02:10

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First of all you must recognise what you are breeding..not just title and paper in lineage.It is best to do some test breeds.

by Rugers Guru on 01 October 2008 - 02:10

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It is best to do some test breeds? Please elaborate.

by AgarPhranicniStraze1 on 01 October 2008 - 03:10

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Courtney it sounds like your heart is in the right place and you are starting with good intentions.  Unfortunately there are folks out there that will tell you what you want to hear and once the deed is done, pups are on the ground it changes everything they ever promised.  Make sure when you decide to offer your boy as a stud you ask around about the person you plan to breed to; don't be afraid to check them out.  Be just as selective with the bitch as her owner would be with your stud.  Don't sign or promise nothing until you've seen her yourself and are comfortable with the breeding; don't be afraid to turn anyone away.

  I too like to know where the pups went so I can keep in touch with the owners and I like to keep contact with the breeder but there's that one person that will take the attitude of "your job is done, you've been paid now mind your own business".  And as a stud dog owner there's little to nothing you can do about it.  If they decide to sell pups to whomever comes with the cash or they don't know how to match pups up to the right owners it can be disastrous and all you can really do is kick yourself in the ars for trusting them.  But at the same time if you breed with someone who truly loves what they do and knows what they're doing it can be a very rewarding experience with little headaches.  Best of Luck.

 

by Gefaehrlich on 01 October 2008 - 03:10

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Yeah what do you mean by "test breeds"?

 

Just because some people tell you this way or that way is how it's done, don't assume anything.  Work out the details with the owner of the bitch before the breeding takes place and get it in writing.  Is the stud fee a dollar amount or a puppy?  What if the bitch doesn't take? What if the litter is small?  How small is too "small"? What if they're difficult to breed --  You do AI's.. who pays for them? Does the stud fee include care for the bitch at your kennel if neccessary or is that an extra fee?  Work out the details beforehand so that nobody feels screwed over at the end of the day.

by katjo74 on 01 October 2008 - 04:10

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Here's one piece of advice that is worth its weight in gold: GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING BEFORE YOU BREED YOUR DOG! Have a contract written out, dated & signed by both parties, and all the details specifically spelled out. If you have a more experienced dog friend who wouldn't mind to go thru and read it over to make sure your contract sounds ok before using it, then ask them to do it for you.

People have given some good advice here. Bruscellosis testing within 30 days prior to breeding is strongly advised unless it wouldn't bother you if you boy/girl turned out sterile thanks to such a nasty culprit.

Verify registration papers and info for both dogs prior to mating (stud owners, check out the female; female owners, check out that stud's paperwork); if you don't verify, then you might be breeding your valuable female to an import without AKC papers or without the titles/hip certifications claimed. Or a dog who isn't what is said he is. Or vice verse for you stud owners. I'd beware of breeding a male or female who's registration papers are NOT in the current owner's name or isn't willing to show/provide you a copy of the registration papers at the time of planned breeding-that could spell trouble and can be avoided.

Know what your agreement is with the female owner BEFORE she's ever in heat. If you want a pup from a nice female, then fine-contract for 1st pick pup, or 2 pups, or whatever. If you want money paid at time of breeding or when pups are sold, then fine-contract for that specifically and spell it out.

Make sure contract specifically covers potential issues: what will you do if the female doesn't have a litter, what if she only has one pup, what if she kills the pups, what if she has false pregnancy, are the pups to be seen by a licensed vet at 6wks old, that the female is not to pass into someone else's ownership while pregnant with this litter (nor the sire-there's no guarantees a third party buying the dog would do your paperwork!),  etc. Sit and think of any potential issue that might happen and weigh it out as to whether or not it needs to be put in your contract.

Don't forget registration...make sure you cover both parties properly handling their part of doing the registration papers timely. There's nothing worse than using someone's stud dog, then them not being willing to do their part of registering your litter, and no written/signed contract to help you prove and enforce the agreement with the AKC or other registry. It takes months to fight stuff out in court, so in the meanwhile, your pups sit without papers, or your pup owners sit fretting about getting their rightful papers due to the time & mess involved. NOT an ideal situation, but happens.
And if you haven't already learned to do such, trust your gut. If someone creeps you out or strikes you as just totally off the wall and not ideal to be having a litter out of your boy, or trusting to handle registering your litter out of your nice girl, then PASS and move on. There's enough GSD studs and nice females out there that you don't have to settle for BS people.

by AgarPhranicniStraze1 on 01 October 2008 - 13:10

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katjo-  All very sound advice but let's assume you did all the above and had a solid contract but once the litter hit the ground the bitch's owner did not follow through with what what promised???  What recourse does a stud dog owner REALLY have at that point?  IMO I'd have to say really none right?

For instance what if you caught wind that the pups were not being kept in the best of conditions or they appeared to be too thin....or you find out the breeder isn't even screening people that come to buy puppies just so long as they move them all?  As the stud dog owner you can give them a piece of your mind but at the end of the day I think I'd feel like there was nothing I could do except bang my head against the wall for being fooled.

by Rugers Guru on 01 October 2008 - 13:10

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What is a test breeding? Who, how, why? I am utterly confused about this one. Would I just find someone with a nice bitch, and ask to breed to her? Just to see if/what my boy produced?

by Shelley Strohl on 01 October 2008 - 14:10

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All good suggestions. I would like to add that I try to help the breeder place the pups from my male in the best, most appropriate homes , and assisting in RE-homing should the occasion arise. After all, those pups came from my special boy! They could just as well have been mine, so I have some responsibilities towards their welfare just as does the breeder.

SS

by katjo74 on 01 October 2008 - 15:10

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If you have things in writing and the situation warrants it, you could always go to court. I know, not the fun thing to do, but sometimes its necessary. Having things specifically in writing at that point will be what will make or break you.

If someone comes to you wanting to breed their female, then I'd ask questions(and trust your gut); have this discussion before the female is ready for breeding so you can think about it a few days. Get a vet reference from the female owner from the vet who's been taking care of the female(surely she's been vetted properly!), who will be seeing the pups when its time, etc. I'd also get active club references and actually check them prior to any breeding agreements. This will lower the chances of someone using your stud, then treating his babies like they're garbage when they arrive. If the female owner cannot provide a decent resource of normal references(normal references should not be primarily consisting of mere usernames of people on a messageboard), then consider that. If you go ahead with the breeding, then you have no one to blame but yourself for a bad experience if that's how it goes.

Could you also not write a small clause that states in the breeding contract, if the pups are not being taken proper care of and are in horrible conditions, then the stud owner has the right to step in (take pics to document the situation PRIOR to taking them), take the pups to a cleaner environment (get them vet checked for worms, etc to further prove your claim as stud owner), and deal with the rest in court? It would make female owners think twice about how they handle/treat their pups out of your stud, too, before the situation ever occurred. And if the female owner signed the contract, then the female owner has agreed to such if the situation warranted. Right? That would at least help you avoid some negative and nasty experiences.  And it's unfortunate because I can see where such could be abused, too(stud owner trying to have too much power over a female owner's litter).
On the other end of things, the litter ultimately belongs to the female owner, and unless you can PROVE the pups are in a very bad situation without proper care, then you don't have the right to just step in and take them. Keep that in mind, too.

by katjo74 on 01 October 2008 - 15:10

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I have an excellent ongoing relationship with the female owners, oversee what happens with my boy's pups, get pics regularly to document their progress, go see pups, and help them line up clients for the puppies when they are ready. But, my list of people who get to use my boys is very slim, tho, too! :o)

by SilverJudge on 02 October 2008 - 04:10

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Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 09:31 pm

Quote:Courtney it sounds like your heart is in the right place and you are starting with good intentions.  Unfortunately there are folks out there that will tell you what you want to hear and once the deed is done, pups are on the ground it changes everything they ever promised.  Make sure when you decide to offer your boy as a stud you ask around about the person you plan to breed to; don't be afraid to check them out.  Be just as selective with the bitch as her owner would be with your stud.  Don't sign or promise nothing until you've seen her yourself and are comfortable with the breeding; don't be afraid to turn anyone away.

  I too like to know where the pups went so I can keep in touch with the owners and I like to keep contact with the breeder but there's that one person that will take the attitude of "your job is done, you've been paid now mind your own business".  And as a stud dog owner there's little to nothing you can do about it.  If they decide to sell pups to whomever comes with the cash or they don't know how to match pups up to the right owners it can be disastrous and all you can really do is kick yourself in the ars for trusting them.  But at the same time if you breed with someone who truly loves what they do and knows what they're doing it can be a very rewarding experience with little headaches.  Best of Luck   End Quote

Thank you! Believe me, I'm a bitch if need be and I will NOT breed to anyone that doesn't have the same standards as me and who I don't trust.

I will research the bitch owner completely, before making any deals or appointments for breeding. I will BE picky as I want the best of the best. I'll strive for perfection in my breeding program and not accept less than that. If that means pissing people off and not making friends because I have to turn them away!

I've been thinking that I'll put a clause in my breeding contract that stipulates my rights to the litter as the stud dog owner. Meaning my right to have a say where the litter goes and to keep in touch. IF that puts bitch owners off then they can take their bitch elsewhere to get bred. I

I'm not in this to make friends, I'm in it to better the breed!

Courtney


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