Main > K9 Power Products (25 replies)
by Schznd on 23 July 2008 - 15:12
"I will be glad to sell you a nice bridge in the desert. People believe what they expect to believe and see what they want to see. But if you like spending money on such products, do it. The real science is not there to support claims either in humans or animals, but the "supplement" industry, barely regulated, steams on and is about as bogus as additives from China. Bogus supplementation is potentially filled with difficulty for the one ingesting it."
Maybe you don’t agree with using supplements and that is fine. The statement “People believe what they expect to believe and see what they want to see” is just ridiculous an arrogant. You believe that the people here working, conditioning and showing their dogs and stating their success don’t know what they are looking at? They don’t have a clue as to when their dog performs better or feels better or what contributes to this success?
Shelly, who has trained, conditioned and handled German Shepherds from coast to coast (and Canada) and has seen dogs being trained and shown that we only read about in pedigrees, according to you has no idea what is going on with her dogs diet and if it affects her dogs condition?
And just to clear the air, not ONE ingredient in any Animal Naturals formula is from China, it is sourced from the USA and manufactured in the USA.
Personally, I make my own decisions on what works and feedback (both postive and negative) from others as well as the track record of the company and people behind the scenes. I remember years back talking with Bob Fritz, owner of Animal Naturals about a new human protein product he was developing. Today Muscle Milk is one of the biggest selling protein drinks anywhere. It is sold in fitness centers, gourmet food centers and nutrition centers around the world; I suppose all these folks don’t have a clue either.
Just my opinion, but people that spend years around dogs conditioning, showing and training are the ones with the “real science”.
by Shelley Strohl on 23 July 2008 - 16:43
Thanks Schznd. Those of us "in the trenches" every day may or may not know diddly about hard science, but we do tend to notice even small differences in condition and performance. Our dogs and our livlihoods depend on it!
by Mystere on 23 July 2008 - 19:08
|Dogs and "livlihood": and therein lies the root of all the breed's problems and the worst of the human element in them. |
by MVF on 23 July 2008 - 19:27
Thanks, Shelley. I'm sure you know what you are talking about.
As for the skeptics, and I am often one of them, let me note that the science supporting individual supplement and food claims may be weak (this is why we need to try this stuff and observe results carefully), but the BASIC SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLE is indisputable: ANY food, fed over and over, is likely to be deficient in some amino acid, or nutrient, for MANY dogs. The only truly horrid thing you can do is PICK ONE FOOD AND STICK WITH IT FOR A LONG TIME.
Mixing foods and supplements is the only way we can be pretty sure we are not causing deficiencies long-term. When we find something that "works" we are inclined to stick with it -- but working long-term is an entirely different matter than working short-term. I find it interesting that folks sometimes think their dog food manufacturer is doing something new because their dogs are no longer thriving on formerly good food -- but that's what it means to feed a dog one source of food long-term -- deficiencies inevitably show up in almost every dog.
The value of almost ANY supplement is that it is likely to give your dogs something they are getting to little of in their regular diet. So it's not placebo or Hawthorne effects at work -- a good supplement is likely to give a dog a boost.
This goes for people, too, of course.
Now: get out there with your dogs this summer and swim, swim, swim -- it's too hot to work on land! ;-)
by MVF on 23 July 2008 - 19:40
I just examined the ingredients in this product and am not surprised it is increasing workrate. This product is very much like the stuff I use to take as a competitive athlete.
What should be noted for safety is that this product contains creatine (presumably creatine monohydrate, but it is converted in the body to creatine phosphate, in any case). CREATINE INCREASES MUSCLE CONTRACTIVE POWER BUT IT DEMANDS A LOT OF WATER. Without extra hydration, your dog will suffer from muscle cramps on this product. THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM, but you MUST make sure your dog has extra water to drink during exercise/work. An 80 lb dog would need an EXTRA QUART of water (my rough estimate) for an hour of work.
One other thing of note is that creatine adds water weight to your muscle tissues. DO NOT OVER-REACT to the weight gain by cutting back on the dog's food. Just expect that this additive will add a couple of pounds of water weight to the dog's muscle tissue. (In a 200lb+ athlete of my build, it used to add 5 lbs.)
The dog needs both the extra weight and water to make healthy use of the creatine. Without it, the dog's muscle tissue will actually break down over time. It has been estimated that 80% of Olympians are now on a solution with creatine, so it is performance enhancing as long as you stay hydrated and well fed.
Good luck everyone!
by bigdave on 23 July 2008 - 22:53
This is in reply to schznd comment about the products he sells and where the ingredients come from. I hate to pop your bubble but a great deal of the ingredients in the products you sell are made in China. GUARANTEED. I work for Pfizer Animal Health and have intimate knowledge about certain ingredients like glucosamine, chondroitin, creatine, and many other supplement ingredients for sports products and believe me when I tell you that there aren't any american manufacturers of MOST of these ingredients. The Chinese companies have undercut all of them. Yes there is some american chondroitin but it's Way more expensive than chinese and in some cases less potent in total chondroitin. What you are saying cannot be true. People need to know these things. When you see all of these human body building ingredients in animal supplements, they are not legal. At least in most states. Don't take my word, call FDA/CVM in Maryland and ask them. The products you have to watch are those that don't list amounts of these ingredients like glucosamine and chondroitin. If they don't list amounts, there probably istn't much in there. I would assume that's why they have a joint support separate supplement that they sell too. :-) As for manufacturing practices, and ingredient sourcing, you need to make sure that any company that you are buying animal supplements or food from is USDA inspected. The USDA/ APHIS comes in and inspects their ingredient and manufacturing practices and insures that they are using approved American raw material. Don't get duped by their sales pitches where they assume you are an idiot and try to make you believe this or that. It's straight sales pitch and very little truth. These ingredients are not proven safe on animals and that's why FDA CVM will not approve their use. Ingredients like chromium, vanadyl sulfate, gingko biloba and a lot of others. If you're going to make statements make sure you know what you're talking about.