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Main > Mom has died...Puppies 4 weeks old yesterday. (14 replies)

by Melody_Gray on 10 February 2008 - 16:02

Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:49 pm

I have a friend who has Cockers. She had puppies on January 10th and are 4 weeks old. She has started feeding them last week and the love their cereal mixed with ground turkey meat.

My friend woke up this morning and went in to let momma out for potty break and she found that she was dead. (Dog will be taken in for necropsy Monday)

Any suggestions in bringing up this litter without their mother?

I appreciate any input.


by nanu on 10 February 2008 - 16:02

Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 03:14 pm

First, I am sorry to hear about this.  For the puppies, if they are eating well on their own, they will do fine dietarily at this age however, please be wary of feeding advice.  Many veterinary schools have a veterinary nutritionist.  I have a MS in animal nutrition.  It is important to find a quality puppy food that they like and to mix several kinds together.  Puppies MAY imprint on a taste of dog food so I suggest using a mix of several types. Personally I also mix a wet food with the dry food.  Next, adding a milk replacer is not a bad idea.   Puppies at this age still need to suck and a daily or 2x daily use of a bottle would give them that social need.  Puppies also learn dog behavior at 6 to 8 weeks of age so littermates are important or perhaps bringing in another sweet dog that would be kind and socialize with the older (6-8 ) week old puppies.  All these things are a little more work but it certainly can be done and you can have healthy puppies.

The best of luck to your friend on this. 

by eichenluft on 10 February 2008 - 16:02

Posts: 3742
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 06:19 pm

at 4 weeks they will do fine on puppy food.  Just soak puppy food (kibble) with water for a while and then mush it, they can eat softened food just fine.   Keep the litter together for proper socialization and if there is a gentle friendly adult dog they can spend time with, all the better.  Until the litter is at least 8 weeks, they should stay together.

by Kougar on 10 February 2008 - 17:02

Posts: 317
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 06:50 pm

Goats milk is the closest thing to dam's.  I start at 3-4 weeks on goats milk (our walmarts carry canned and dairy case paper quarts) mixed with raw ground meat (turkey, chicken beef), rice baby cereal, and gradually by 8 weeks have them on good puppy food with water/milk mixed.  Make sure the pups are wormed every 10 days with panacur or strongid (1cc per 10 pounds) which you can mix in the gruel.  It is very very safe wormer, so I would put in a little more - I used 12 cc for 8 pups - to be sure they all got it.

by Shelley Strohl on 10 February 2008 - 17:02

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Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 07:18 pm

I mix dry food (what mom was eating) with warm goat's milk in a food processor. They should lick the mush right up, but if they don't stick their noses in it and let them lick it off. They'll get the hang of it in a couple of tries.


by SKI on 10 February 2008 - 17:02

Posts: 337
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 01:02 am

We feed the kibble with the goat's milk as well.

Point noted before - the adult dog that will do well with the young puppies.  Critical


by Shepherd Woman on 10 February 2008 - 22:02

Posts: 1052
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 02:59 am

We start our pups out on wet food at 4 weeks old at work.  Use the goats milk or warm water and let is set a bit to soften up.  Make like a oatmeal paste out of it and they should do fine on it.  Resorb is also good for them to put into their food for extra nourishment.  Good luck with the pups.

by yellowrose of Texas on 10 February 2008 - 23:02

Posts: 9579
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 03:25 am

Goats milk   do not microwave any food for pups      depletes all vitamins and is not good for milk products either, a lot of formula and milk replacers tell uyou that on the container....

Read Kevin Trudeau's   New Book     Nutritional Secrets they dont want you to know    Natural Medical ways and what our world of Pharmacutical and medicine have dealt to us and our dogs and their diets....vitamin defeciency is the reason for most of our pups illness.....and the breed and research....what you use to know is not necessarily so horizon with microwaves,,,no fat ingredients,,,,aspartame  , lots of deceptive chemicals in our foods and the dog and puppy foods....., flavor enhanceents in our dog food and ours to make us like it and create appetites for more of it....  if man invented it and made it   dont eat it......

raw goat milk is actually much better if you have someone in your community that can supply you,.....


by Schznd on 11 February 2008 - 03:02

Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 02:31 pm

K9 Puppy Gold  Lactose filtered and also filtered for fat and allergens, this is an extremely pure protein source.

There is nothing more nutritious than species specific mother's milk, different species have different amino acid structures. Goats are herbivores, what is good for goats is not necessarily sufficient for canines, especially where herbivores and carnivores are concerned.

Consider the nutrient and energy profile of canine mothers milk averaged throughout lactation (protein rises in contrast to most mammal species). The ratios are quite different from goat or other herbivore milk. 

Dog milk profile is: 9.8 fat, 8.1 protein, 3.5 lactose
Goat milk profile is: 4.5 fat, 3.3 protein, 4.6 lactose
Cow milk profile is: 3.8 fat, 3.3 protein, 6.9 lactose



by Birdy on 11 February 2008 - 20:02

Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:50 pm

K9 Puppy Gold is a good name for it considering its cost.

I've always had good luck using Ed Frawley's puppy formula

Bottle Feeding Recipe

11 Calories per CC

    1. 10 oz. of canned evaporated milk or goat's milk (not pasteurized cow's milk - this will cause scowers - dogs cannot drink normal cow's milk) Goats milk is by far the best to use. Wall Mart sells it. (I use the goat's milk)

    2. 3 oz. sterilized water (baby water or boiled water) this is not needed if using goat's milk

    3. 1 raw egg yolk

    4. 1 cup of whole yogurt (avoid skim or fat free if at all possible)

    5. 1/2 Tsp Karo Syrup or Corn Syrup (NOT HONEY !!!)

Place ingredients in a blender and blend or use a wire whisk. Be careful to not over blend and create a milk shake full of bubbles and then tube bubbles into the puppy.

Keep cool and discard leftovers after 7 days.

Warm formula to body temperature (dogs are around 101 degrees). Discard any un-used formula. This is a thick mixture - use a stomach tube to tube feed or enlarge the hole in the nipple for easy access for the pup.

Go to his website and see the chart for amount to feed

by eichenluft on 11 February 2008 - 21:02

Posts: 3742
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 06:19 pm

there is no need to bottle-feed 4 week old puppies.  They should be started already on puppy food "mush" with water or goats' milk - and if they aren't then they can start easily at that age.  Just stick their noses in it and they will get the hang of it immediately.  One word of caution about feeding milk (goats milk or any other) - starting at about 5 weeks the puppies do not tolerate lactose well anymore, and can develop diarrhea on the milk - diarrhea can kill a puppy in only a few hours (dehydration) - so use milk with caution.  Puppy kibble soaked in warm water until soft, and squished (or not) works best IMO.  I use goats milk only on infant puppies if they need to be supplemented (they are still nursing on mom and not old enough to eat soaked food yet) and I use it when just starting to feed them soaked kibble, to make it more yummy.  But I quickly switch from goats' milk to warm water to soak their food.  Much safer.


by Birdy on 11 February 2008 - 23:02

Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 10:50 pm

That is very good advice Molly,

I was referring to the puppy k9 gold product.

I have in the past had pups at 4 weeks old without their mother and they did fine with the soaked kibble alone.


by grammashorty on 12 February 2008 - 00:02

Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 01:28 am

The formula Birdy uses is the same one the breeder we bought our pup from.  Not  Leerburg either....she raised GSD's on it for 30 years or so before she came to the US.  Used it for our pup for another couple of weeks after we brought her home.  It's great.....our vet said it was one of the best he'd heard of.  Just my 2 penny's

by Schznd on 14 February 2008 - 23:02

Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 02:31 pm

Again, you can feed things like corn syrup, canned milk or goats milk, which is not lactose or alergen filtered and they will survive.  Or you can feed human grade milk proteins (US) of the highest quailty, in proportions which are biologically efficient to digest and utilize for young canines and have them thrive.  The macro nutrient profile in K9 Puppy Gold reflects canine milk during the first 6 weeks of life.  The combination of a milk based protein source along with a meat based protein (meat or meat based kibble) is biologically correct and the reason young canines in the wild, stay on the mother much longer.

Molly is 100% correct, a lot of damage is done using milk sources that are not lactose filtered, causing de-hydration thru diarrhea, we hear this a lot.



by tigermouse on 06 March 2008 - 20:03

Posts: 1763
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 07:53 pm

dont worry 4 wks is plenty old enough to start weaning get a gud quality compleat mixer mix to a paste . the most important thing is that the pups are well socialised.

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