German Shepherd Dog > Never a kinder soul than my Beau (50 replies)
by SitasMom on 10 April 2012 - 21:35
I have 2 dogs that will have the same issues if given only raw, and one of them will have horribly loose stools if given more then 1/4 cup raw.
Dogs are like people, some do well on low cab diets, others do well on high carb diets...... some are healthy as vagens......
Glad your pup's doing better today, he's a beauty.
by Jenni78 on 10 April 2012 - 22:04
|Other than the fact that he was eating raw when he got sick, what evidence do we have that he got sick BECAUSE of what he was eating? |
I could have a heart attack while eating an orange...doesn't mean the orange caused it. Vets who make money on Science Diet will never like raw feeding, and will blame it on anything that comes up with an animal. Tell them the dog is eating Iams, and they might find the real cause of the problem.
I would be very concerned with finding out what REALLY made a puppy sick in case it happens again. Could be something he ate without your knowledge, could be something in the kibble, could be something in the raw, could be a virus or bacteria of some sort, could be coccidia or giardia (which can occasionally make an already skinny dog very skinny very quickly)... could be a hundred things.
I don't remember if you were feeding him kibble and raw, but that is a BIG NO NO. One or the other or you are inviting problems, especially in an immature immune system.
Was he vaccinated recently?
by Jenni78 on 10 April 2012 - 22:08
|Re-reading the posts, I will say that 4 meals per day is too many for a carnivore. Fasting is essential to proper digestive health in a dog. Feeding all that TOTW (which is of questionable quality ingredients and could just as likely contain bacteria as raw food) and pork at the same time would leave him wide open for any bacteria or parasite to "take hold" since, as you said, the digestion rates differ so greatly. I don't feed even little puppies more than twice per day.|
by Juno11 on 10 April 2012 - 22:11
|Your pup is adorable! I hope he's feeling better.|
I just want to mention that have been feeding raw for 12 years and have never had a problem. But I have never fed raw pork. The bones i give are uncooked beef knuckel bones or small chicken carcuses or wing tips (all organic from a local farmer). My dogs love raw meat (NOT ground) that is starting to go bad (yuck!) and have never had a problem with it, but prefer to feed fresh also from a local farmer. I have found that too many bones will constipate and too much fat gives diarrhea.
Wolves will bury a large kill in a shallow hole and dig it up when they want to feed. My dogs love to bury a meaty bone and dig it up weeks later. Dogs have much stronger stomach acid than we do so they can handle the bacteria that would kill or make a human very sick.
Kibble is cooked/processed so any oils such as safflower or flax that are added will go rancid with the high temperatures unless the kibble is coated with the oils after the cooking process.
Cooking your pups food is another option if you're uncomfortable with raw. I sometimes give a cooked meal with ground beef, sweet potatoes and romaine lettuce or pureed brocolli for example. I add bone meal in place of the bones because cooked bones can splinter. I add 1 tbsp of cold pressed safflower oil just before serving. Just a thought.
Hugs to Beau!
by Nans gsd on 10 April 2012 - 22:40
|I am so glad he is OK, sorry I misread your post, thought you lost him. JHC, I just thought NOT another loss, it is getting unbearable. Great days ahead, Nan|
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 23:08
The important thing is that this puppy is doing well. The origin of his illness may never be known. Many dogs thrive on raw, just as many on commercial food, some do well on Ole Roy. I had a dog make it to 23 eating only Burger Bits.
by DDRCzechFan on 10 April 2012 - 23:46
|We took a trip back to the vet, just got home. While they tested his fecal again and it was negative for Giardia or parasites, the vet is trying some Albon for Coccidia. Dr. Andre wanted to see him one more time before she went home, and to see if I was able to get more fecal samples. I spoke with his breeder, they also told me to try the Albon.|
I am thankful for most of the comments, and opinions on what could've caused it are always helpful. Right now, Beau is doing better, no runs and no vomiting for quite a few hours. Attitude is perking up and he seems more like himself.
I contacted the breeder, and was informed that because of the frequent park visits and possible Goose poop consumption, THAT could've caused Coccidia, either way, he's getting Albon for 8 days, 250mg per tablet.
They also did a Parvo test tonight, which was negative, thank god.
Now we wait and see. I have a cot set up by his pen, so I'll be sleeping by him all night, tonight and if anything changes, of course he will be going back to the vet.
It could've been the pork, it could've been lake water, it could've been flying pink elephants, I may never know, but I'm not going to be told I'm feeding him a poor quality food simply because it isn't raw. Raw works for certain dogs, it doesn't for others, that's great, if it works for you, cudos, I tried feeding it, it did NOT work for us, I won't be trying it again, that is MY right and I'm not worried about my puppy's quality of life simply because he isn't fed raw. For goodness sake, I just want him feeling better, I'm not going to sit here and split hairs over Raw feeding vs. Kibble.
EDITED TO ADD: My adult dog also didn't do well on the Raw. We gave it a shot, an honest effort, I just can't justify feeding it anymore, to either of my kids. It may come off as an attitude problem, but truly, it's been a long, worrysome day, and being told my baby possibly could've had Parvo didn't make it any easier. It's been a long, difficult day, filled with worry, and fear. I'm just feeling the way any mother would who just wants their kid feeling better and not knowing the cause of his illness. I just don't know what else to do, I've called vets, I've visited vets, I've had them run many tests, if there is something I'm honestly missing here, APART FROM THE RAW (at this point, it's a dead horse, no point in continuing to beat it) please, feel free to chime in. He DOES seem to be improving as of 8:00pm tonight, I'm hoping he will continue to improve.
by Blitzen on 10 April 2012 - 23:53
If he gets sick again, then try to determine the source. Feed him a brand name kibble, keep him trim, give him plenty of fresh air and exercise, and continue to do the best you know how. In return he will do as well as his genes allow.
by DDRCzechFan on 11 April 2012 - 00:54
|Unrelated, but intersting to know, Beau weighed in at a whopping 29.0lbs tonight, at about 14wks old.|
by macrowe1 on 11 April 2012 - 01:06
|Poor baby! I hope he gets better! I know that GSDs have notoriously picky bellies, and some just can't digest raw as well as other foods. My GSD was on EVO for a while and started losing weight, and vomiting, and I found out she just can't digest it. I'm feeding a limited diet for her belly, and occasionally cooking boiled chicken and rice for her. I hope he gets better.|
by Jenni78 on 11 April 2012 - 01:26
|Good grief. |
This is what I wrote: Feeding all that TOTW (which is of questionable quality ingredients and could just as likely contain bacteria as raw food).....
Please read what I wrote. The PM I received was rather bizarre, so bizarre in fact that I went back and reread this entire thread, and lo and behold, my TOTW comment was taken way out of context. I am not a sugar-coater. Sorry. The truth is, TOTW, made by Diamond Pet Foods, is just as likely to contain something that could have made him sick as any other brand of dog food or raw food. If you think kibble is bacteria free, think again. I apologize in advance this time for being so offensive.
I really hate, for the puppy's sake, to see something like this chalked up to a food issue when, in fact, we don't know. Perhaps I'm too thorough, or obsessive, or whatever, but I need to know what is really wrong with my dogs if they get sick. The fact that they get better is great, but I want to know how something could be prevented in the future. But that's just me; some people like to just close the case and move on. To each his own. I will refrain from further "brash and not needed" statements.
I hope the little guy is truly on the mend and this doesn't happen again, whatever it is.
by DDRCzechFan on 11 April 2012 - 01:36
|This is one of the reasons I chose to feed Taste of the Wild.|
We could go round and round all day about which kibble is better, and we'll always have reasons as to why one's superior to another.
I had tests done, went to several different vets, called OVER 12 vets trying to get answers, what the hell else was I to do, hold someone at gun point? Blood tests, fecals (multiples), Parvo tests, Giardia tests, xrays were all done.
I'm a horrible owner I suppose, It's not like I sought the answer as to WHY he was sick with all the tests, all the vets, all the phone calls, all the pleas for answers. I plan on avoiding that park, but am I supposed to bubble wrap a dog and never let him touch anything again because of this? It's like saying he can't breathe air because it could've been the air that caused this. No, I don't know WHY this happened, I had every conceivable test my vet and others were willing to perform, done, what other options do I have?
Like I said, if there is another test YOU know of, that I haven't tried, even if it's outlandish, TELL ME. I will test for it. I'd like to be able to give an answer to others, as well as to why he got sick so hopefully others can avoid this too.
by GSDPACK on 11 April 2012 - 01:46
|Before I went completely raw I fed TOTW for years (I still recommend it to people who dont want to feed raw) .|
Dogs did well, I even mixed raw and TOTW together, yes I am aware of all the "buts and ifs" and the dogs did well too.
I am sorry your boy was sick. I am sure you will do right by him but as people recommended, watch him closely just in case it repeats itself. He could have eaten something funky, could have some type of a parasite, bacteria or even fungus as I found once made my dogs sick in the spring.
by GSDguy08 on 11 April 2012 - 01:51
|Jenni78, I have DDRCzechfan's puppy's brother......We both feed TOTW, and I've never had any problems on it with any of my dogs other than in the past one bag of the "Salmon" was too greasy. Other than that, TOTW has always done very, very well for the dogs of mine who have been on it. I'm more convinced it's the raw than anything. I know she "had" fed raw and kibble, kibble takes twice as long to digest which would give the raw time to develop bacteria......but who knows. It's just good that Beau is getting better.|
DDRCzechfan, Beau definitely is getting big. Auggie isn't "too" far behind him, he's a little bit over 24 lbs today. His black is really starting to show though, Auggie is going to be a very, very black sable after his coat fully changes. Glad to hear Beau is getting better, keep me posted.
by mollyandjack on 11 April 2012 - 01:57
|Good posts, EuroShepherd and Jenni78.|
by Jenni78 on 11 April 2012 - 02:07
|Am I on Candid Camera?|
by mollyandjack on 11 April 2012 - 02:11
|Better smile, Jen! :D To OP: I hope Beau is feeling better and that you have pinpointed the cause...just please keep in mind the points that have been made in this thread. I do know what you're going through - my dog had chronic, unexplained diarrhea for a year. It's terrible to see them like that, but the people posting their thoughts are thinking about your dog's health and aren't trying to make you feel bad.|
by Jenni78 on 11 April 2012 - 02:12
|I can't do a thing with my hair.|
by GSDguy08 on 11 April 2012 - 02:16
|Jenni, I didn't read all of your posts, I just saw one of the TOTW ones......but now going back I see where you mentioned.....what I just mentioned about kibble/raw. I haven't read the entire thread yet.|
by Blitzen on 11 April 2012 - 02:28
IMO TOTW is a very good dog food. I've fed it to several of my dogs and they did well. I've also had many dogs live well past 12 years of age eating only a locally milled dog food that was mostly corn. Recently I lost a 151/2 year old that ate Purina all of her life. Most of my dogs never saw a vet for being sick and they did not eat raw or expensive food like Origen. It's in the genes, baby.