REDIRECTED AGGRESSION - Page 3

Pedigree Database

Czech Lineage AKC Champion German Shepherd Puppies
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V4 BSZS 2017 Ulm Ando vom Haus Theobald Stud Serve
Stud Dog

Super Young Male , VA son for sale , Top Quality
Male for sale

susie

by susie on 16 January 2018 - 21:01

I don' t get your point, Cent.
Every poster wrote that this is no dog for beginners...
and we are talking about a Mal, not about a GSD....

In case you really want to compare this dog to a child - there is no "father" - this "child" was abondened at least 3 times; and every "stepfather" teached this child the more agressive, the better.
This kind of "training" is not at all uncommon - like Duke said "overloaded" - not by genetics, but by training for the purpose of sale/money.

And the buyer may deal with the problems resulting out of this training...

by ValK on 16 January 2018 - 21:01

susie, your supposition is that that dog was intentionally have been taught to discharge own rage/frustration on the handler?
and can you enlight me how such behaviour can be differently evaluated in respect to different breeds?
susie

by susie on 16 January 2018 - 21:01

No, I do NOT think this dog was taught so...why do you think so?
I just tried to point out that a lot of dogs that are raised and trained with the Intention of a good sale learn to bite as hell, but they don't learn to "out".
The dog in question may have learned: as soon as I "out" there will be the next prey item...In this case the ball.
Agitation, but without success - not in the trainingbook, the dog overloaded/overstimulated so there is no other option than biting the next available goal...
We are not talking about a pet, but about a not well trained working dog.

I normally don't care about the breed, dogs are dogs, but Cent was talking about GSDS although the dog in question is a Mal.
Every dog is able to "overload", but a nice workingline Mal , bred for over the top prey drive, paired with natural aggression, is the perfect candidate for the described behavior when trained wrong.
Just my opinion, I don't know the dog.

by Centurian on 16 January 2018 - 21:01

Susie...

If your read my post , I was making a general commentary about the GSD . I stated that my last post was not in reference to a dog that was put through the ringer and I stated the post was not directed at any poster i.e. their comments.

I entered that commentary because there still exists people that see and have dogs that redirect aggression towards them and think they are good dogs and great to own and work . At times I have read former threads on the PDB , that some people that handle these kinds of dogs don't mind when the dog shows handler aggression .

But now that people bring up ' prey drive over loading '.. I pose this question .. do you think this is good genetics and do you think these dogs , Mal , GS ,whatever have good mentality ? Many people don't look at the genetics as it relates to the mentality of the dog. IMOp in a canine , in association with temperament these are the most important aspects. I leave that for the readers and posters to discern ...

susie

by susie on 16 January 2018 - 22:01

As a fact Mals and x Mals are the most successful working dogs,
and most of them do have a lot of prey and natural aggression, they are bred for these traits.
Seems to work...not for the pet family, but for police.
People should know what they want, and what they are able and willing to deal with.
I don't like handler aggressive dogs, but the dog in question seems to have other problems. This dog wants to bite, and the handler ( for sure someone who did not train this dog ) seems to be the next available "item"...

by ValK on 17 January 2018 - 00:01

susie you're first, who mentioned that dog in discussion have passed 3 handlers.
i don't know if that true or not but from all available info i've come to same conclusion as Centurian did - most likely bad genetics. i have seen plenty of above average aggressive dogs and from own experience can tell that such trait don't come from the blue mood. there was a genetic predisposition to such behavior. could be that dog was bought as ready for duty and previous owner didn't disclose this issue and buyer didn't do vigorous testing. who knows. but should be absolutely obvious, this dog doesn't fit to any use, other than guard dog or companion dog for cool dude in ghetto. maybe you're experienced enough to tame down dog's behavior but in any case you'll have sort of time bomb with no clue when it will blast.
in regard of mali vs. gsd your statement sort of misleading. present rise of mali caused by lack of sufficient quantity of bred for work GSD but definitely not superiority of BM breed over GSD.

by KAL on 17 January 2018 - 09:01

Again, thank you for all your responses. It is obvious that the dog is not suitable for a novice handler and that the dog will need very patient and experienced handling. Some of the discussion has been in and around managing the 'out', ie release from bite. The problem was also related to not getting a bite, namely that if challenged and not provided with an outlet for the arousal, the dog would bite handler. I wonder however how the dog might be controlled in such situations?

by Centurian on 17 January 2018 - 14:01

How the dog might be controlled in situations

Simple : Dog you get a bite when I say so and when I say out /cease, you out ! And if you ever think about biting me . I'll take you for a helicopter ride. [ figuratively speaking of course] . That is how you handle a dog that won't / can't handle itself.

yogidog

by yogidog on 17 January 2018 - 16:01

Exactly centurion teach the rules enforce the rules. And when broken by the dog teach the consequences. But much fairer to teach the rules when dog is a pup and also teach consequences. Alot of people jumping in to bite work far to soon

by ValK on 17 January 2018 - 17:01

Centurian harsh correction, if dog isn't absolutely lost case, would do the work but has bad consequences as well. particularly when dog is already mature. doesn't worth even to bother, just use dog in where it fit and look for more balanced one.

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