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Classified: TOP LITTER VOM FUNKEN SPIEL
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AKC has approved the recognition of working dog titles!!!! (33 replies)
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From Danny J. Spreitler
The American Kennel Club Board of Directors has approved the recognition of working dog titles!!!! This will include schutzhund, police, FH, IPO etc. This is a historical moment and opens the recognition of titles to other venues and breeds. It is also the first time in AKC's long and proud history that they have stepped outside of their own programs to recognize titles. Today history is written! |
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Ya yippie skippy The AKC will recognize Sch and working dog titles just what we need more fingers where they don,t belong. And from a orginization who not so long ago would not even recognize biteing sports matter of fact they issued a wordy letter some time ago on how biting sport were just terrible and abusive to dogs.
This is not good news. |
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The AKC working dog sport program is up for review at the November Board meeting. If that meeting has been held yet, I don't know. Nothing new on the AKC website yet. They have recognized titles and scorebooks from USA, SV, DVG and WDA in the past for their WDS program. I don't see how any of this can have much impact since they only allow 4 breeds to title under the program, you can only hold a trial 5 times a year (per allowed breed) and then only at an AKC specialty show.
Of course with USA's recent "us or them" vote, I could see AKC and WDA doing some serious talking.
I'll wait and see what the minutes of the November meeting say.
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The WDS trial did not need to be held in conjunction with a breed specialty show.
Keith Jenkins |
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and so what, does not change my view on AKC (American Krapper Club)
Denise |
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There was a meeting Monday. The WDS program is dead. AKC parent breed clubs are to send in to the AKC Performance Dog committee what organization they want to "oversee" when they have a SchH event. Originally, it was to be a selection from any established legitmate organization i.e. DVG, USA, WDA, AWDF. Not sure if that selection pool has changed or not. However, the AKC Performance Dog committee will "vet" the organization to be sure they can give legitimate titles. Moreso than wanting to be able to hold SchH trials should a club so want, the AKC needs a process to be able to be sure any title presented to it earned in the United States is legitimate as this is also part of the process to be able to put those titles on pedigrees.
There is absolutely no machinations or aspirations by AKC to take over SchH, nor to disrupt any other organization that does SchH. It is just an amenity and a convenience for those people who want to have titles put on pedigrees and have SchH Trials at an AKC club. Those trials would still be required to be adminsitered by an established club again like DVG, USA, WDA, or AWDF. I have not heard its only WDA nor is there an established timeline when this will come into effect.
I did hear that the SV has offered its input to this or any help needed. AKC works much slower than our other organziations because of the way they are structured. I beleive the essence of it has been approved to proceed, but its a bit of a way off before it can be implemented. |
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Hehe,
Hi Denise, that one made me laugh.
Does the akc? - never mind.
Lee
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Kim, thank you for the post above. These ideas make sense as the A.K.C. is an all-breed club. They should NOT be involved with any aspect of working dog programmes and sections such as the judging of Schutzhund trials, the administration of Körung examinations, etc.. That is NOT their specialty and they are wise to use the services of the other organizations for this. I think this is the simple task for that we have asked so many years. Really; how difficult could it be?
They are the ONLY F.C.I.-recognized breed registry for the U.S.A. and of course their only present value to us is the maintenance of correct pedigree information. If all remains just as the statements you typed, then this should be a very successful thing. It of course requires A.K.C. to open bilateral communication with the performance dog clubs.
Of course in the end, there is but so much goodwill, and the remainder will be about money. The way that I see it; this should not initially place a financial burden on the A.K.C. to document a working dog's achievements on it pedigree. It does that already, of course, for dogs who have achievements in A.K.C.-sponsored events. But of course these events typically forward a bit of money to the parent organization!
I think that will be the deciding factor for A.K.C. - how much will it cost to administer such a service; and how can this business be funded and grown so it remains self-sustaining? And it must be sure that the achievement of a Schutzhund title requires exactly the same steps regardless of whether its is awarded by G.S.D.C.A.-W.D.A., DVG, A.W.D.F., or U.S.c.A.. I certainly see where that requires careful planning on their part. In closing, thank you again for your post.
Best Regards,
Bob-O |
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Kim, thank you for all the insight you provide.
Bob-O, the deciding factor for AKC will be how much $ is in it for them.
Rik |
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| How will AKC verify titles already earned? |
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I guess every one can make of this what they will.
I do think it is a positive step since AKC is the registry I must deal with in the U.S.
Rik |
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How will AKC verify titles already earned?
The titles will be verified through the working club partner. For example, the WDA is the GSDCA’s partner. The WDA will (for a fee ) send your titles in to the AKC. AKC will then enter your titles into their systems.
So far the AWMA, WDA and UDC have partnered with their AKC breed club counterpart. As this program is only through the breed clubs at this point, I don’t see how the DVG will be able to participate.
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I guess if I want to prove titles on my dog I will show who ever is concerned the dogs scorebook, This will turn into a favorites game and with the GSDCA-WDA being boot lickers of the AKC any person with half a wit can see this train wreck coming down the road. Now the SV is offering help? There are some organizations that should not be so chummy especially since the AKC and the SV use 2 different standards to base the GSD also since the formation of RSV2000 it seems the SV is trying to be everyones buddy... all this spells more problems for the breed.
The AKC is the biggest reason there is no more accomplishments to Hip Dysplaisa control in the US all they would have to do is require OFA or PENN HIP evaluation before issuing papers on dogs and that would take a big step forward in ther fight but it might cost them some holy money to do so and thats what it always boils down to. |
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| DVG will be able to be used as this has nothing to do with "breed" titles this is about working titles. |
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It's all about the money. AKC has recently defied it's own mission statement when it opened up events to mongrel dogs:
The American Kennel Club is dedicated to upholding the integrity of its Registry, promoting the sport of purebred dogs and breeding for type and function. Founded in 1884, the AKC® and its affiliated organizations advocate for the purebred dog as a family companion, advance canine health and well-being, work to protect the rights of all dog owners and promote responsible dog ownership.
AKC doesn't even note BREED championships from other registries, and they now want to make an exception for working dog titles??? WTF???
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How will AKC verify titles already earned?
The titles will be verified through the working club partner. For example, the WDA is the GSDCA’s partner. The WDA will (for a fee) send your titles in to the AKC. AKC will then enter your titles into their systems.
So I have a dog titled through USA. What must I do to get AKC to recognize that title?
I think this is great news.
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| and what about titles on an import ? will they include schH titles on my imported dogs being registered via the AKC foreign registration program? sure hope so...... |
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well, lets say it like this: "this egg has a stink to it"
even though I salute AKC for finally recognizing working dog titles.... why all of a sudden now???? and why suddenly soooooo quick, after soooo many years of resistance to recognize any "bite sport" of any organization, even coming out with their own program of ...umm...SCHH??? And this whole decission a week after USA pulled the plug??? I am a member of an AKC club (as well as USA) and one thing I learned is to better keep your mouth shut as to the details of SCHH training. I am suspicious of the all to sudden change of mind.
Here is an example as to where I see a conflict:
Just this year we had a dilemma going on at our Agility trial as one exhibitor corrected her dog outside the ring and it had been observed by a couple who disliked this. A complaint to the AKC by the couple about "dog abuse" during an AKC trial followed. Even tho she was not associated with our club, we were "scolded" by the AKC and it took a few weeks to settle everything. Not the nicest experience.
Do you really think AKC will leave GSDCA-WDA completely alone and let them do their thing? Maybe in the beginning, but then they want to have their say....
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well - this certainly is a very frightening day! Now that the AKC has their foot in the door - (thanks to the WDA) we can expect the ruination of our sport within 10 yrs ~ it wasn't enough for "them" (AKC/GSDCA) to ruin the breed.... it is quite evident that the preservation of the sport and the GSD remains with USCA. Michele
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| The GSDCA-WDA already bow to the AKC it won,t take a few years. |
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| My prediction: (Assuming the Mayans are wrong and we don't all disappear 12/21.2012) After the WUSV in 2013, GSDCA will eliminate Or swallow up WDA. Then, AKC will go back to its stance prohibiting biting sports, no longer list schutzhund titles on pedigrees, and return to pretending that dogs don't bite. Except for pitbulls...unless it decides there is enough money in registering pitbulls...and the pit foks agree to a name change... |
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Elkoorr stated:
Just this year we had a dilemma going on at our Agility trial as one exhibitor corrected her dog outside the ring and it had been observed by a couple who disliked this. A complaint to the AKC by the couple about "dog abuse" during an AKC trial followed. Even tho she was not associated with our club, we were "scolded" by the AKC and it took a few weeks to settle everything. Not the nicest experience.
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What method of correction was used ?
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| If it was a AKC event it was probably a stern "NO" and freaked all the "you only train with love and affection" people out. |
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I would like to give another perspective based on what I am seeing and not what has been. First, I think that everybody knows when it comes to the breed I don't compromise on working and have aleinated some show people because I speak out on the lack of working traits that has become so commonplace today. Having said the aforementioned, I must say that I have seen a lot of movement within the American german shepherd people in past 5 years. I have seen a lot of GSDCA people that are getting German showline and German workingline dogs because they recognise what the ASS has become. I remeber people 10 years ago crucifying GSDCA and AKC (myself included) for the state of the breed and many saying they would never change. Then a movement got off the ground in the GSDCA (WDA) and they were seeking to conform to international standards. Well, again many people here said GSDCA/AKC will NEVER let them do grip sports yadayadayada. Then WDA got off the ground, they lasted for the three years, started clubs, had conformation shows, and was accepted by SV. Still, people said that AKC would never recognise this arm of the GSDCA thus in essence they were not legit in their eyes. Now, AKC has acknowledged and will recognise international titles, they are hosting WUSV, and the SV has expressed approval.
My point is I see a steady progression by the WDA towards the same standard as the FCI. Regardless of what the American Show breeders think, the WDA branch is growing, its conforming, and people within their own ranks who were old ASS breeders and handlers are acquiring the european type dogs as the USA members possess.
Folk, I don't think this train is going to stop or fold, I think the ASS has been declining for the past 20 years.(Heck look at the German Shepherd Reveiw today from what it used to be,its barely a periodical now).
I don't have a dog in the fight as I have been members of both this year, but I won't lie to myself about what is happening, and I won't try to hinder but onlyhelp those that are seeking to improve the breed. I see the WDA trying to do the same thing as USA. I see them tearing down barriers in their own house that have been deeprooted and prove they are for real. I see the momeentum being with WDA, and continuing to go against the ASS. And lastly, I don't see the AS people railroading this because they have become so small in numbers and so many defections that they don't generate the revenue to sway AKC to try to reverse this. WDA is here to stay.JMO |
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My prediction: many people who feel disaffected with USA will leave (already 9 new WDA clubs in a matter of a few days) and may join the both the WDA and the GSDCA. If people who adhere to the FCI breed standard flock to the GSDCA, they will become the majority over time and be in a position to revise the AKC breed standard.
Actually, the AKC breed standard is not terribly different from that of the FCI--only minor differences such as angles of croup/pastern, height to depth rations, length to height ratios, off-color dogs, etc. The problem of the winning AKC specialty show dogs (the American Shepherd) results from breeders who continue to breed what the AKC judges put up in the show ring. Things may change if the judges are gradually exposed to more European dogs and to a revised breed standard.
As for AKC, that organization is only an all-breed registry. As such, that organization cannot require different breeding standards and prerequisites (and titles) for other breeds than they require for the GSD. |
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| Bob it happened to me years ago with my old Tiekerhook dog too. I was at an agility trial just for shits and giggles, a friend ran agility lessons at her house, so we learned and went to a few trials. Anyway I was at one trial at the practice jump, my dog was not paying attention started to go around the jump, I gave him a "hey" and a leash correction with the fur saver. From across the ring a lady stands up with her two swamp collies and starts yelling at me for correcting my poor, poor doggie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahhah. |
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DVG will be able to be used as this has nothing to do with "breed" titles this is about working title
From the AKC statement: Effective December 31, 2009, at the end of a three year trial period, the
Board voted to discontinue the Working Dog Sport. Moving forward the AKC
will record Working Dog titles earned in events held by existing organizations,
if requested by a breed Parent Club. The organization must be approved by
the AKC Performance Events Department. Titles to be recorded require Board
approval. The recording of the title on an AKC pedigree will be done at the
request of the dog’s owner for a fee set by the AKC. In addition, AKC clubs
will be permitted to invite the other organization to hold its Working Dog
event in conjunction with the AKC club’s AKC event, as long as it is clear in
the publicity that the former is being held under the auspices of another
organization.
Now the SV is offering help?
I have been involved with this for the last 2 or 3 years and to my knowledge the SV is not involved with the AKC in any direct manner.
My prediction: (Assuming the Mayans are wrong and we don't all disappear 12/21.2012) After the WUSV in 2013, GSDCA will eliminate Or swallow up WDA. Then, AKC will go back to its stance prohibiting biting sports, no longer list schutzhund titles on pedigrees, and return to pretending that dogs don't bite. Except for pitbulls...unless it decides there is enough money in registering pitbulls...and the pit foks agree to a name change...
Hey, I don’t doubt there will be some type of GSD club backstabbing in the next few years. They are good at that shit. Has there ever been a 5 year period without it? But just because the GSD folks are problem children does not mean that the program will fail. Contrary to what many people think the world does not always revolve around GSD club drama. If GSDCA somehow absorbed or eliminated the WDA that would not stop the other breed clubs.
Lyle says to the membership that USA is a "breed club" when, in fact, first and foremost, it is a "performance club".
Lyle is right. They call themselves a breed club within the AWDF. They are not allowed to issue scorebooks for breeds other than the GSD. Performance clubs can issue scorebooks to any breed (DVG, USMRA and soon NARA). They only allow GSDs in there championship. USCA is a breed club.
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Louise and Gustav
thank you for your words. lets hope this is the way things will go.
some people say "stay usa and fight the change". for me, im going to go the other ways and try to make a change. it seems it would be more productive to inform and educate than to battle with those who seem to be stuck in their ways.
john |
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| Folks, I am not anti-USA by any stretch of the imagination. I have a problem with the position of the SV in reference to RSV2000. Same principle and I see things the same way. I will support any group that helps continue the GSD as a working dog and I am silent in my support of forums like the American Specialty Shepherds. History is learned to profit from with your actions, if USA and WDA are both trying to keep this breed working why wouldn't I support them. JMO |
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| While USA may be a breed-specific club, it is not a breed club, per se. A GSD breed club is a parent club with its own written breed standard (as approved by the members of the club--not by delegates) and approved by the AKC (the only FCI recognized breed registry in the United States). |
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| Oh Louise... The FCI says that for the GSD there is only one parent country that may set the breed standard and that is Germany. The AKC refuses to follow FCI standards and therefore is only "recognized" because they are the largest registry in the US, they are not recognized as part of the FCI. The USA is a breed club... just like the gsdca is a breed club, just like the awma is a breed club, etc. The fact is the USA follows the FCI breed standard for the GSD! |
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USA will never be recognized as an FCI breed registry. Their USA-in-house breed "registry" is laughable. I am a current member of USA and initially registered my born-in-the-USA dogs with the SV via the USA office so that their titles (at events of the SV, USA, and the WDA), breed surveys, and ZW scores would be reflected in the SV's database and on the dogs' "white" SV pedigrees. These same practices are in the works with the WDA (which will soon have access to the SV's database).
In the foreseeable future (IMO), there may be enough people with European GSDs within the GSDCA to facilitate a needed change in the breed standard (to bring it in line with the FCI standard). Historically, written breed standards have changed repeatedly. More recently, the SV's standard must soon incorporate the longcoats.
I have not been a member of the GSDCA for over a decade--but was a member for 29 consecutive years. Yes, I became as appalled by the ASS as anyone with European lines.
JMHO--USA is about breeding and owning "sport dogs" (most of which are imported as competition dogs)--which may vary considerably from the FCI standard. Many of the dogs representing USA on the World Team are not of breeding quality and do not conform to the breed standard (read: dog agression, handler agression, cryptorchids, structural faults, etc.).
USA's exclusionary Johannes amendment is about its leaders' egos and their desire for power and control of the many for the sake of a handful of sport competitors.
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