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Classified: AKC Champion sired puppies available
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USA Breeders leaving tails intact (no docking) (10 replies)
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What is the reasoning behind leaving Pembroke Welsh Corgi puppies WITH tails in the USA? I don't want to start a fight on here, I am just curious. I breed for the show ring and the standard says tails up to 2" in length, but even a bob tail will have trouble finishing its AKC championship unless it is #1 an exceptional animal AND #2 handled by either a well known breeder or well known professional handler. In my opinion, an average owner/handler would not be able to finish a tailed pembroke, and I'm not sure even a great handler could since a tail longer than 2 inches doesn't comply with breed standard.
I understand the rationale behind removing the tail to keep the corgi from being stomped on by cattle when they are working. There is a reason the tail is removed, for functional work purpose. I also agree that most people, myself included, don't work cattle with their corgis.
I've seen 2 breeders in the last 5 minute internet search leaving tails on. What's the concensus?
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If someone is not using an animail is a way that their tails/ears could get in the way and harm them, then what is the point if this unnecessary cruelty?
Yes, I understand the "breed standard". But perhaps it should be rethought.. Considering the fact that their tails are there naturally. And by altering them by removing a body part you aren't really changing the breed. Just hacking off part of an animal for aesthetic purposes.
I am not trying to start an argument by any means, please understand that. I am just letting you know that this is the reasoning behind many people choosing to not alter their pets in this way.
Thank you for listening. :)
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IMHO - The ONLY reason I can see that pembrokes get docked is because the British AKC and American AKC say so.
Out of all the pembrokes sold, how many of those actually go to show - where it matters?
In Agility, the tail is the dogs best asset in helping with balance. The police will not take a shepherd or other dog - without a tail for this very reason.
I think it's cruel and totally unnecessary. Puppy mortality is increased by docking.
I searching right now for a pembroke puppy with a tail. A tall order for sure!
I want him or her for agility training, possibly obedience and therapy.
But I am very doubtful of my success.
I live in the Philadelphia burbs and would love to find anyone who sells pembroke corgis with a tail.
Not interested in a cardigan.
My email is email99501@gmail.com |
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It is BS from the animal rights people that want you to believe that it is "cruel" to dock tails. These same animal rights groups want people to not breed animals AT ALL. Research a little better before you start making the argument on cruelty.
Each breed has a "standard" and that is what makes the breed different from other breeds. Each dog was bred with a specific purpose, be it a herding dog for specfic animals or terrain, or to just lay on someones feet to keep them warm. If you take away the right to keep the "breed" its own breed, you feed the animal rights agenda...which is the removal of the human right to own animals.
Make sure you understand that the animal rights people do not truly want "ANIMAL RIGHTS", they want there to be NO animals bred at all.....no food animals, no working animals, no companion animals....NO ANIMALS.
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After owning a wonderful corgi with a full gorgeous tail, I wouldn't want one without a tail. Corgi tails are nice and full, and with a tail, the dog's emotions can be seen more fully in every wag.
IMO breed standards are not "written in stone" and changes can be made for the better. Docking tails or leaving them on does not change the genetics of the breed, so what if a corgi lover prefers a corgi with a tail? I think the option should be there for the potential owner to chose.
I won't get into an animal rights conversation, I just prefer corgis with tails, but I respect the opinion of those who not share my love of corgis with tails.
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As “one of those breeders that leave tails natural” let me just say…. I HAVE NEVER BEEN SWAYED BY ANIMAL RIGHTS GROUPS etc. I chooses to leave tails natural because it is what I feel is correct and the right thing to do. I personally see no reason to continue a practice that has no need. It has nothing to do with changing the breed standard (which may I say has been changed over many years to each generations interpretation of the breed standard. Just look at how any breeds have changed “ looks” from 50 years ago. ) I am not trying to take anyone’s rights away. I do not impose my feeling on anyone. I feel everyone should do what is in their moral belief. So it would be nice for us all to get along. If you want to dock tails go ahead, but just leave me alone to not dock tails. Pems are absolutely beautiful with tails on and it gives them an even more foxy look.
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There is such a thing as a corgi with a tail in the breed standard....it is called a CARDIGAN WELSH CORGI.
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Yes, the Cardigan does have a tail, but it is not a Pembroke.(they are two different breeds) That is like comparing German Shepherds with Australian Shepherds. AKC says that it has no rules that require docking or that make undocked animals ineligible for the show ring, There are some out there winning now. Also for the people that import dogs( not just corgis but Rotties, Dobes etc.) with tails,(from countries that do not allow it) do you want them to have a tail amputation on a full grown dog????? Like I said before, if you want to dock go ahead I never said it is wrong. But for people that do not want to, we won't. The breed is beautiful both ways. Also it is not the first breed to start leaving tails on. Remember what it was like years ago when people first stopped cropping ears on Boxers, Danes etc . That was a big stink too, but is now accepted.
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Just because "AKC" says that there is nothing in their requirements as an "organization" that requires corgis to be docked, the Breed Standard calls for the Pembroke to be a docked breed, a tail no longer than 2" is acceptable, a provision left in for the dogs born with a natural bob.
The judges have been instructed to not award a tailed corgi since it is not acceptable in the breed standard.
It is misleading to people to say that a tailed Pembroke can be successful in the show ring. ANY corgi can be entered if the fee is paid, but wasting money on a tailed dog as a "show prospect", well that seems like a way to manipulate pet people into thinking they've got a chance to do something with a tailed pem and charge more money to feed of emotions vs. being honest and saying that you as a breeder just don't feel that docking is necessary or important.
It is one thing to believe in something and stand up for it, that's great. To mislead people into thinking that they can show a tailed pembroke and actually finish it in todays ring, that is wrong.
Susan Griffin
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So much for your statment when you started this " I don't want to start a fight here I am just curious You have CROSSED A LINE by saying that I am misleading and manipulating people.
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I'm new to Pem Corgis, I tripped over this string looking to see if I could show my dog with her tail still attached. (I am frankly against disfigurement/alteration for the sake of a subjective aesthetic (antiquated) ideal, and IMHO, cutting off little puppy ears and tails because WE like the way it looks is about as close as you come to canine alien abduction).
From what I can conclude, we can enter and show, but unless we have a open-minded judge that appreciates dogs au natural, we take up Agility, or we move to Australia, she'll never win anything.
Now, I've had vets and other Corgi folk more knowledgeable than I tell me that our 6 mo female Pem pup (with tail intact) has an excellent disposition and is developing beautifully. I'm considering having her tested for all potential diseases, and pending those results, maybe breed her. If those stars all lined up (and a litter of pups would be a fun and wonderful family experience) the real objective truly would be to produce genetically and conformationally well above- average (exceptional, even?) puppies. Shouldn't THAT be what breed standards are about?
Gracious--imagine two little girls each with their new Pem puppies, and one says to the other, "My puppy will always beat your puppy at the dog show because my mom is coming to cut mine's tail off now...it's the breed standard you know!" So sad we have to think that way as adults. |
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