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Lack of balls, how did this dog made to world? (39 replies)
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Oki I am going and watching videos of some of the so called top GSD, I came accross this video, can someone tell me who is this dog? And what is his pedigree?
Still don't get how did this dog made it all the way to world. Awesome helper work though, good job on punking that dog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEBhIRwUXdk&NR=1 |
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I wouldn't down the dog, not it's fault. Obvious something triggered this reaction in the dog. Before judging such dog, I'd like to see the other SchH parts leading up to the courage test. Regardless, I feel sorry for such dog. And it's pedigree has nothing to do with this outcome. A dog is a dog is a dog. It is not it's pedigree.
Anyhow, thank you for sharing. It's good to learn from such.
Brandi |
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Sorry not the type of a guy that makes excuses for a dog. Call it whatever you want it, but the dog lost his balls in the end. Could be bad foundation, I am not saying it's not possible, but still it should not happen to a dog that is a world competitor.
Still would want to see this dog pedigree, and if it's not foundation that it is in his genes. Skittish if you ask me. |
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| I do agree with: how could it happened to a dog as a world competitor. How did the dog get to this point? I understand what you're saying. But many other questions rise from this one post: How often has this dog competed, where has this dog competed, what does this dog's score book look like, ect. |
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Brandi
To get to the Worlds the Dog had to go through Qualifiying trials to get to that postition of being selected for the worlds
I guess all countries are much the same in that respect
In the video shown the Dog changed its legs dropped speed and you see its ears flick, He was unsure of himself at that point,
He was infact intimidated by the Hepler he was to attack, The Point is clearly shown as he was lack lustre on the final approach and the missed bite, then his nerves got the better of him and he bolted Not something i would want to see in my Dogs, If theyare focused they will go through high hell and water to get to the Helper, nothing will stop a Dog who has steady nerves and courage, and it has to be bred in them
In a couple of weeks time i hope to get a video on here of my 6 month old Female Izzy,
She will be working on a tug on her attack to the helper, but you will see what a focused Pup really can do, she is fearless to the extreme, and has the speed and courage of many dogs rolled into one, that will be plain to see on the video
Steve1
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It´s obvious that this dog lost the balls - it is female.
Just kidding.
I have videos from 2007 WUSV championship,I will go through them.Still I think this female is from Czech republic but I´m not sure, I have to check it.
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Thanks Cage. Let me know if you find out what dog it is.
Brandi in my experience a dog that misses a bite, should come back even stronger totally pissed off, many times helper will make the dog miss to see how much courage and drive the dog really has. Good dog will come back stronger, there are dogs that I seen gong full speed on a suite loosing a grip flipping few times in the air and still come back at the helper with even more force, the courage it's either there or it's not, there is no middle point. |
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It´s not that female from Czech republic as I thought - I thouht so cause both handlers were dressed similarly and dogs are very alike. I keep on going through the videos.
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| And if this dog is a female than that makes it evern worst, as females are the best fighters, whatever they luck in a substance they always make up in a character. |
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| Keep looking, let me know who it is. Thanks. |
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Only thing I noticed from other vids of competition that year was that the grounds were very very wet. One showed a lot of dogs doing the long attack, with several @ the end shown missing their bite due to footing, but coming back onto the sleeve cleanly after they got back up. The vid you posted the dog really didn't look interested in getting a bite as much as getting the heck out of there!!
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| The dog got punked, nothing wrong with missing a bite, actually I like to watch the dogs that miss the bite, because usually they come back like a rockets at the decoy full of balls. This one was not surre of himself. |
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In my last post, I guess I should have clearified it better as I'm aware of what a dog has to achieve in order to get in to the Worlds. When I wrote: How often has this dog competed, where has this dog competed, what does this dog's score book look like, ect.. I was referring to how said dog did at these other trials? Has the dog had the same issues in other trials? And by viewing it's score book, we'd know if this has happened in it's past.
In regards to it's pedigree, I would have to investigate further into once I found out what this dog's pedigree is like. If it's pedigree is known for producing such lack of confident dogs, then I'd stear clear, but not always it is just because of it's pedigree.
I do agree that the said dog should have reattacked. I know what it's like to have a dog that reattacks after a missed bite as my retired Police Service Dog was just what Steve1 explained a dog should do in this situation.
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| This is why I want to know the pedegree of this dog, and see if it's a common issue with the combination. Or just a fluke. |
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This dog didn't just miss the bite and then refuse to engage, the poor thing cowered on the ground. Dog may well have a weak temperament, but the behaviour looked more like a training issue so I don't think I would be too quick to judge.
Margaret N-J |
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| Training issue is one thing, I been around dogs that have training issue (unless someone beat the crap out of that dog on regular basis), this looks to me like more than training issues, weak nerves, the dog that I seen with training issues would go after the decoy that waived that stick in front of their face not run away, and the kind of dogs that I am talking about would not go after the sleeve after that, they would try to get even with the decoy. I just think it's a shitty dog. It's obvious that this dog been doing it for a while, so there is no excuse for his performance, I would understand if this would be unexperienced badly train dog, but that kind of dogs don't go to wusv. Sorry I just hate when people make excuses for the dog. |
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I hate to see that. It is a good question, how this dog got to that level of top competition. I do think this is a female, might be wrong - either way hate to see it.
molly |
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No good female should do that either!
The only dog I've seen do that in person was a dog (male) that wouldn't out. A practice "helper" kicked the dog in the chest just before the trial to remind the dog that out means out. Then the dog didn't want the bloody sleeve at ALL.
Not saying that is what happened here, though, of course.
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Even if a experience dog got kicked in a chest there would be no reason to not want a sleeve, if the dog dose not want it than it's just not a very good dog is it? I understand that SCH dog are not train to take that kind of stress, but still I seen some untrain dogs that got kicked and that would just piss the heck out of them not the other way around ;). If any helper would kick my dog in a chest he would have to deal with me, and I would not end it with a kick. I just can't believe that some of these helpers call them self professionals.
Molly I been looking through your website lately and I have an eye on some of your dogs. Especially SG-1 Dajk zo Solivarskeho dvora would love to learn more about this dog. ;) |
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Thanks, let me know if you have any questions - if you want to know more about Dajk I can put you in touch with his owner.
molly
eichenluft@aol.com |
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| Oh that helper was not a real helper, was just pretending at the insistence of the dog's HANDLER (NOT owner), and they made sure they hurt the dog. A-holes. Just one more reason not to let anybody else handle your dog... |
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| Oh that helper was not a real helper, was just pretending at the insistence of the dog's HANDLER (NOT owner), and they made sure they hurt the dog. A-holes. Just one more reason not to let anybody else handle your dog... |
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| I wold appreciate other people view and reads on the dog. How about Jim, and Gustav what do you guys think? |
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| 4pack, geat a real dog, I would appreciate your opinin as well. |
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Not too uncommon..some handlers try to "boost" their dog with some "secret" substance
I personally withnessed one super dog being "chased" in Budapest - something no one could ever expect from this dog
The dog was actually "stone" and acted completely different then usual
Not the dog, nor the pedigee, nor the training at fault !
pldichiban
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| If that's the case, than it's obvious sign that there is something wrong within the breed (which I do not believe, just with some breeding practices), and would be perfect example of how SCH is not adequate test to test the dog and learn it's limitation. I am sure in that case that there is way more dogs that go unchallenged, and are claim to be excellent dogs based on their titles alone. |
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| What am I missing here? As everyone knows, ANY dog can be chased, by the right decoy/helper - period, I don't care what sport or what "real life" anything you want to propose. In schutzhund we do not train our dogs to come through the stick, our dogs are trained to endure stick hits once on the sleeve, but the stick is not used to prevent the dog from reaching the sleeve. From what I see on the video, the dog hesitated, the helper saw it, the helper chased the dog. The helper could have instead sucked the dog back into a grip by jumping back, presenting the sleeve and raising the whip, and while that might have been the right thing to do in training for confidence, it would have been the wrong thing in competition. |
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| Exactly it would be wrong in the competition, or any trail. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it called a courage test? Definitely this dog lack the courage part. These are not young dogs, they been doing it for a while, there is no excuse for that, at least that's my point. |
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| That's what I was trying to say, the helper saw the hesitation and did not allow the dog to rengage. Dogs have been chased before at this level of competition, thank goodness it's not very often! |
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| I just don't agree that "every" dog can be chased away, week dog yes, maybe badly train, but not every. It's actually quite specific group of dogs that can be chased away, dogs with week nerves. |
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I'd agree about a different reaction from the handler if this were a club level event, or a training event. This video was from the NATIONAL.. supposedly the best of the best. If it were a polar bear with a sleeve the dog should have made some attempt to attack or look for an opening to do so, not run off the field with his/her tail tucked.. Drugs may be a reasonable reason, or it could have been a dog forced to work with an unfamiliar handler who had completely confused the dog after being trained by someone else to a high enough level to qualify for the Nationals. I pulled up the 2007 National and only found a few dogs who zeroed in protection... guess someone who knows them better might know which of those are sables and give some imput.
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You and I will have to disagree, Snajper69. Just on the other side of defense is avoidance. Even the best dogs can be pushed over that edge, if threatened long and hard enough, if it becomes a matter of survival. No sport is designed to push a dog beyond this breaking point, nor should they, but even the best dogs do have a breaking point.
Just to be clear, I am not trying to say all dogs would do what the dog in question did, nor am I making excuses for him/her, I don't know the dog. |
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| I am sure this is female from the Swedish team, I remember seeing her "running off". If so, it would be ChaDe's Raya (S43367) born 2 Aug.2004,out of Ury v Fuchsgraben (Quax vd Fasanerie x Queni v Fuchsgraben) and Chade's Rimi (Garry v Erlenbusch x Chade's Jalma). I corrected the info, had looked at a "wrong line" and posted her dam. |
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The dog should have reattacked no matter what. Whether a sport or street dog, it should have reattacked. If the dog was confident and strong, it wouldn't have mattered whether the helper chased it or didn't give the dog an opening to reattack. A good dog shouldn't need "help" to do its job. It should just do it.
If it is said dog here is her information: If you scroll down, you'll see her scores from 2007. Interesting I must say.
http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-details/54890/ChaDes-Raya
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| They didn't post her scores from 2007 WUSV, A34, B89, C disq. |
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| Same female appears to be fine is the protection video here: http://web.telia.com/~u51304061/raya.html |
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Hukka,
Interesting how they post the dogs scores on all other trials, but not at the 2007 WUSV. Brings much into question as it would for any dog. One must be proud of his accomplishments, as respecting of his faults.
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Right,it is Chades Raya ,I´ve just found that video.She did a great bitework until this,everybody was suprised that she failed.
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| I could be a fluke, maybe she was in heat? Very interesting. Females are usually awesome fighters, and is very hard to sight them. Very surprised. |
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