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Classified: Blue and blue brindle puppies Champion bred
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LONGEVITY (18 replies)
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It appears to many of us that the gsd has too many GI and other problems, and a shocking proportion are dying young (under 12) -- many under 8. To all but the most callous, this is very saddening.
Does anyone know of any breeders or vets working on improving health and longevity in specific lines? I assume that an outcross of two long lived lines might lead to the longest living dogs.
I know my own new rule is going to be to only buy pups whose sires, grandsires, and greatgrandsires average 7 or more at breeding and whose dams and granddams average 4 or more at breeding. That's a simple rule that could help.
Does anyone have thinking that has advanced beyond my own? |
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We could begin with a discussion of lines known to be long lived.
And breeders choosing to combine such lines?
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| What I want to hear is that both sire and dam have iron stomachs and can happily eat just about anything healthy and never have gastro problems. |
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I'd be interested to know if the problems are more in one type of bloodline (show vs working) than the other.
I have both but breed more working than show lines but have combined the two. My dogs in general
seem to be able to eat anything but I do feed mostly raw. Not sure if that makes any difference.
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Bucko,
I don't know about the sire and dam but my 7month old is a goat! It all comes out the other end. Thank God!
Fingers crossed I have no problems with him! |
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OK- I'll start.
Your dog, MVF, is linebred 3,3 on Alfred kuhlen Norden. Alfred sired a litter of 12 healthy pups at age 12.5. Don't aske me why they aren't listed on this dB. They were whelped in Hawaii.
BTW- Alfred was a very impressive male in person, even well into his golden years. His photos don't do him justice at all! Not famous, not a BSP winner, he had as close to perfect temperament as any dog I have ever known. His name figures in the pedigrees of some of my dogs, and a lot of dogs I WISH were mine.
 www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/18130.html
SS
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Yes Shelly he was a beauty; unfortunately those great, great dogs are gone, hopefully not forgotten. I feel we have screwed up our dogs so bad that I don't think we will see our dogs reproducing at that age for a long, long time unless we clean up our acts and start paying attention to what we are pumping into our dogs every day, every litter, every dog.
I am talking about, vaccines, worming med's, crappy food stuff, topical flea/tick stuff, and as you all know the list goes on and on. There just has to be another way.
My 7 year old german bred gsd is in good health, his sire lived to almost 15, quit producing at 10 though, was collected and frozen is now available. BUT, my boys health as I said is good however, he will be plagued with problems as he ages I know for a fact. He has pannus which is an eye condition which stems from auto immune, supposedly. OF COURSE, no studies have proven this but they seem to know that it is auto immune related.
So that pretty much tells the story for his aging process. He's OK for now, his sight is now deteriorating, however,. I will lead the way for him as he has for me in the past.
But my point is this; we have to get these dogs on better feeding, vaccine, more natural living; and steady daily organic living and exercise that will benefit them for years to come. That is a tuff protocal. Most of us cannot do it for ourselves, let alone our dogs. |
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Shelley
I am trying to avoid my DDR Von Hena C tragedy. As you recall, she died this winter (when I was struggling with my own cancer most) when she was not yet 6. I keep hearing horror stories of dogs like my girl who can't eat, can't hold weight, and die very young.
My Frauengarten (Arolser Holz) male from you is healthy and happy! And while my German is not great, I did read a comment in German on the web (I think before I decided on your breeding) about Alfred siring in his old age. That's a huge plus for me! I was also comforted that T x Gabi was a 3-peat with older parents. As you know, I do a LOT of research before I decide, but you and your dogs are off the charts. If everyone was as good as you, Shelley, the breed would be healthier and better in so many ways. I hope your life is finding new meaning in your new circumstances.
Michael
PS I get my first post-surgery metastatic check soon. Wish me luck.
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| Nans makes a good point that longevity is not just about breeding, but about LIVING. We all need to learn what will help our dogs live longer, healthier lives. |
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Would that it were as simple as just choosing pups from parents which seem to be long-lived and healthy, though. My first GSD was from American lines, and I lost her to hemangiosarcoma exactly one week after her 14th birthday. She could eat anything and was basically healthy (had a slight flea allergy if the fleas weren't controlled) until 13.5 years. That's when she started showing signs of degenerative myelopathy (she's in the video Dr. Clemmens made showing the progression of the disease; she's the dog in the "Mild" section that's being moved on a sandy trail in the woods). Her pedigree was heavy with Lance of Fran-Jo (she was sired by Anton's Lukenbach, out of Wynthea's Sky Lark).
My two current GSDs both hit the 14 year old mark this fall; one I've had since she was 9 weeks old:
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/619035.html
Suess, my other girl, is a rescue I took in as a foster when she was about a year old. Nothing is known about her as far as bloodlines go; looking at her, she's pretty much typical back-yard bred American GSD type, yellowish tan with the stereotypical saddle and mask:
http://s237.photobucket.com/albums/ff34/hexebh/Dogs/?action=view¤t=94b1.jpg
Both can eat just about anything; both have been basically healthy so far. Hexe wasn't spayed until she was 8 years old, so she developed a mammary tumor in early 2008--not uncommon for intact females; she also experienced a spinal infarct in March of this year, so she's lost some steadiness in her rear and needs a boost to get on the bed now, but she still runs when she's outside, still goes up and down flights of stairs, still chases her ball, still jumps for her toys (even though I'd rather she didn't), and will still hit the sleeve full-mouth despite several molars having been removed because of abscessed slab fractures. Suess's teeth are virtually non-existant, from 13+ years of carrying around large (5#) rocks for her amusement, and she's had a benign tumor alongside her anus for the past three or four years, but beyond that she's also still active, still plays rock-hockey with her rocks, chases the chickens whenever she gets the chance, and can still jump up on the bed on her own.
There's virtually no common bloodlines between these three dogs until you get way, way back to when the breed hadn't yet left Germany, most likely; yet all three hit the 14 mark with relatively little health issues in their lives. All have been fed commercial dry food for as long as they were with me; all three were/are vaccinated annually for distemper, etc., and every 3 years for rabies. All three were/are on heartworm preventative year 'round.
Sometimes, I think it just comes down to luck of the draw in the end.
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just to underscore comment from nans gsd, i have to agree that what we put into our dogs is as important as their genetic makeup. while we've had gsds for nearly 30 yrs, i have learned a lot in the last 10 yrs that i wish i'd known before. thank god for the internet. i don't think there can be too much emphasis placed on the need for probiotics and enzymes in keeping the dogs healthy and building immunity. once the immune system fails its like a spiderweb crack in a windshield. it goes in every direction; likewise with the dogs' health. stress is another big factor - humans and dogs. we talk about testing our dogs with stress in dogsports. folks, we are not talking about stress testing a bridge or some other inanimate object, we are talking about a living, breathing being. if the dog's nerve cannot handle the stress we impose, the immune system will go to hell. sometimes, it is not obvious. sometimes it is. good health and a strong immune system promotes longevity and enhances whatever the dogs' genes have to offer.
pjp |
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Yes luck of the draw is maybe some of it; however, it sounds like you pay good attention to their health and get them what they need. That is also important.
The breeder of my boy Tyler feeds only raw and has for years; however, it did not work for him. Possibly had I kept in on it maybe the pannus would not have surfaced until later in life. Who knows. It is also possible you live in an area with less environmental impact on the dogs lives. That would be grreat. There are places around, however getting fewer and fewer.
I am hoping when I am able to purchase another dog that this show/work lines crap is solved and the work lines can bring some better health and longevity to the breed. One can hope. Nanci |
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Genetically based Longevity is a one thing and GI problems and environmentaly induced shortening of a life, may be other. If you feed commercial dog foods made out of tumors, Chinese pesticides and chicken lips, ther food which is always void of live enzymes, then be not surprise that dogs die early. I am big promoter of home cooked food. Dogs lived for tens of thousands of years on leftovers and now it's a big NO NO. Purina decided that, you know. In Czech there were very few flipped stomachs until we got westernized and start feeding balanced nutrition in form of granules. Longevity went down too. So it is great to breed longevity into dogs and also stop feeding any(!!) commercial foods.
Prager(Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com |
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Commercial food is exactly what it is, a garbage priced to sell, can the dog live on it? surer dogs can live almost on anything, they adapt very well, they are opportunistic animals and will eat whatever they will get to survive, and sometimes even thrive on it. But it will shorten their life span, in one way or other, I am my self from Poland and all the dogs in my life only got table scraps, nothing else they all lived happy and long life. but at the same time we did not over vaccinate any of the dogs just did only state required vaccinations, which in USA would be only Rabies!!!. You add all that crap into a dog and than you expect to be healthy and live long, get a grip. This is not to offend any one, as I do use commercial food, and I did for long time over vaccinate thinking that my vet knows better, but I am constantly evolving, and Raw and minimal vaccination in my opinion is the way to go. Sure not all of us can do it, hell I can't even afford the raw, but after my last episode with commercial food I think I am done, and my dogs will maybe eat less but only table scraps, and Raw diet, that's it. I am tired of the commercial food companies not stepping up to the plate. There is always something, food ingredients change, fashion change (low carb, high, carb, low protein, high protein shit make up your mind).
Sorry ;) but after my female got sick last week I am pissed off!!! And I am back to the dark side (RAW "pray" type feeding).
BTW if any of you think commercial food is the way to go, try eating it for a year or longer and see if you not ready to die by than. lol ;)
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| Good for you (and your dog)! Faro Policia has been on an all-raw diet since age two, and still in fantastic physical shape at age eleven! However, his eyesight has begun to worsen, and no longer has the stamina for live breeding this last year. Luckily, I had the foresight to collect him several times by age ten while his viable sperm rated at 96%, because that too had begun to decline. It's been said that the old DDR lines tend to live longer, and Faro carries quite a bit from that genepool. |
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PS I get my first post-surgery metastatic check soon.
Yeahhhhh MICHAEL!
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| My favorite homemade dog food is: some kind of ground meat; beef, turkey, chicken, even porKis OK is you want; mix 3-5 vegi's add some water and flash cook, just until it all heats up slightly. I put it over an organic kibble and they LOVE it. You can add carbs if you want your dog to gain weight, but without any grain or potatoes they keep a really lean weight with this and the best thing is in their shiney coats and their eyes. They absolutely glisten after a week on this; PS, I am going back to this. It totally takes me minutes to prepare it; you can cook up a batch that lasts 3 days; that is all you want to keep this anyway and you feel like you have really done something for their health. |
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Classified: 2010 KS ASTs Breeding Plan
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