Need your help please, getting this puppy! :) - Page 3

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by Livefree on 14 July 2017 - 04:07

Thank you very much Reliya.
I got the pictures.

I asked the breeder and he doesn't have any written guarantee. It's a small town here and most people are living off on an honor system of their word etc. :-S

My kids love the puppy as he seems pretty laid back and let them cuddle him when we went for picking.

The breeder only has my $300 deposit that I guess I should be prepared to lose if he doesn't return it and I don't bring the puppy home when he is 8 weeks.

Thank you for everyone who replied. I guess it's confirmed this puppy is a long coat.


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 14 July 2017 - 05:07

Wow, this thred took off overnight ! When I glanced at it yesterday, it was only just the OP and 1 other post.

I was intending to comment as follows:  1 - re the length of coat, yes if one parent is already long coated your chances of a l/c puppy are UP - and looking at the FACE fur on the pictured pup, (as other have now said) I'd say that is going to be what is known in the GSD breed as a LSH - 'long stock haired'.  This means the pup will have a longer coat, rather than just a 'standard coated' (short haired) dog albeit with good depth and feathering (Americans know that as 'plush', here in the UK we just think its 'normal', rather than the VERY short, 'mole coated'  variety !Wink Smile) . But it probably won't be a VERY long, huge, straight and flowing (and still incorrect to the 'Breed Standard') coat.  And while it will attract a lot of burrs and knots and make grooming a bit harder for you, it really isn't too big a deal, because normal standard coated dogs shed just as much, often more, all over your furnishings !  And besides which the l/c is arguably a 'prettier' coat/look.

I suspect, from everything else you have said about the breeder you are getting the pup from, a lack of knowledge and experience on their part.  But we ALL get this one wrong, occasionaly !  GSD coats can change as the dog grows up.

I am reasonably confident we are right, though, as I have had a LOT of longcoats through my hands, more than many people.

2)  Can I second everybody saying you ought to get to see the documentation that goes with 'your' pup's health clearances, before you take charge of it / hand over the balance ? Ask for your own photocopies.  Too few newbie purchasers of dogs ask for this sort of proof; which is how so many 'greeders' get away with less than stellar service.  IF YOUR BREEDER IS ON THE LEVEL, THEY SHOULD NOT OBJECT TO BEING ASKED.

3)  The other thing that occurred to me on seeing your pictures was: dunno whose child that is, holding the baby - but they need to be taught to pick up a dog properly.  Give its bum some support, puhleazzze !!! 


BlackthornGSD

by BlackthornGSD on 14 July 2017 - 05:07

If he can't give you the short-coated pup you have put a deposit on, he should refund the deposit. That puppy definitely looks long coated to me, but it can be hard to tell sometimes. I know I've been fooled before. But the length of the hair on this puppies legs and ears make him look likely to be a long coat, imo.

Because mom is a long coat, you know that every puppy has at least one gene for a long coat (from mom). Whether the pup will be long coated himself has to do with whether he got a 2nd long coat gene from dad or a short coat gene.

The breeder should be able to provide you with a pedigree and with proof of xrays on the parents. And he should be willing to refund your deposit if he is not able to provide you with a stock (normal) coated puppy, as you requested.

Christine

by JonRob on 14 July 2017 - 08:07

"Livefree, 'straight-back' is a red flag. That's kind of a dead giveaway that it's a backyard breeder. No knowledgeable breeder would ever use that term."

Nope. There are knowledgeable breeders who use that term, and they focus on breeding healthy, sound, long-lived German Shepherds that make great family dogs, not police dogs or high-drive sport dogs or fancy show dogs.

There are also sleazebag breeders who use that term.

If it was me, I would take the puppy if the parents have good temperaments and are in good health with health certifications (ideally at least hips, elbow, heart, degenerative myelopathy). That pup is going to be an absolutely gorgeous dog, and you and the kids really like his personality. This is a good chance to teach the kids that it's what's inside the dog (and person) that matters most, not what's on the outside. And that sometimes the best things in life are surprises that we didn't expect.

Hundmutter is right about teaching the kids (if they're yours) how to pick up and hold a puppy the right way. See how unhappy the puppy looks in the first two pics? Hanging on to his upper body without supporting his behind can injure him. Here's a video on how to do it the right way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3asiLRZFFS0

One of the most important things a child can learn from a puppy is how to take his point of view and give him what he needs.



Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 14 July 2017 - 16:07

GSD is supposed to be a working dog, a purpose-bred dog. Breeding for nothing but family pets, is, imo, a BYB, so I stand by my assessment. I have not heard one knowledgeable, respectable GSD breeder use the term "straight-backed" unless they were trying to describe something to a novice, ie, "These are the dogs someone might call old-fashioned straight-backed (another red flag, lol). They most certainly are not ADVERTISING for "straight backs being hip dysplasia-free." Wouldn't that be great if the BYB dogs who lack correct angulation for the breed were all HD-free...LOL. All too often, these "pet bred" and marketed dogs have very soft temperament that crosses into shyness and often skittishness, both of which are totally inappropriate for the breed.

A showline or working line with correct temperament and a balance of drives should be able to live as a companion with a competent family so long as basic common sense is exercised and the dog's mind and body get what they require to thrive. Let's not help these BYBs breed dogs who don't fit the standard with the excuse that normal people can't handle a working dog. Well, if the dog is correct and the people can't handle it, then a better-suited breed is in order. There are PLENTY of dogs who end up pets even when people try to comply with the standard. No reason to intentionally breed GSDs who don't fit the standard.

Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 14 July 2017 - 17:07

Wouldn't that be great if the BYB dogs who lack correct angulation for the breed were all HD-free...LOL.

Jenni, you seem to be saying straight-backed dogs lack correct angulation. Please explain. American showline dogs usually have straight backs, but most have pretty extreme angulation.


by Livefree on 14 July 2017 - 19:07

Thank you very much Hundmutter, BlackthornGSD, and JonRob for your replies and wisdom on the breed.

I am grateful for your detailed post HundMutter regarding the coats. I have heard this LSH long stock haired term before and the PLUSH coat a lot recently here in North America.

I would be content with even a "plush" coat or whatever that is. Just was not at all privy to all these variations in the same breed. We just went as a family to this so called "reputable breeder" and gave him a deposit for a puppy we thought was the best suited to our family needs. Then again, I am of the school of thought that believes in giving the dog a life akin to a family member, and enjoy it for years to come. However, I still wanted a purebred dog that we could enjoy. Story of my life picking up a puppy! ;)
[We weren't even this lost when house hunting or when deciding what to major in college! lol...]

Thank you for the pointers on how to carry a puppy, and the video link. Most helpful.
Those maniacs were my lovely kids trying to enjoy the puppy while stretching out the poor guy's gut. Duly noted now.

susie

by susie on 14 July 2017 - 22:07

It´absolutely okay to ask for the pedigrees of sire and dam, and it´s absolutely okay to ask for official hip ratings ( does Canada use OFA, too, or anything else ? ). No reputable breeder will wonder...just ask.

No proof? In this case run and forget the deposit...

In case pedigrees and hip ratings are okay, it´s about the coat length "only". You could insist on the "ordered" stock coat ( for me the pictures show a pup somewhere between plush and long stock coat right now - maybe even the breeder doesn´t know yet ), no stock coat = deposit back or another puppy, maybe out of another litter

but given that pedigrees and health thests are okay I tend to go with JonRob -

there are no titles necessary prior to breeding in Canada, you didn´t ask for titles ( not even for health certs yet ), you don´t want to show or train (title) your dog, but you are looking for a family companion "only" -
you like this pup, you seem to feel comfortable with the breeder besides the question about the coat length -

not a dog I would buy ( most probably untitled, unshown parents ) but fitting the Canadian standard ( that said the breeder legally is not at fault - morally, when thinking about the breed standard, he is, but in that case 99 % of breeders are ).

You want a companion dog / pet dog looking like a German Shepherd - that´s what you paid a deposit for, and that´s what you most probably will get - may become the best dog in your and your whole families life.
Who knows?

Knighthawkranch

by Knighthawkranch on 14 July 2017 - 22:07

Gibbs at 8-9 weeks

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Now

Image may contain: one or more people, dog, outdoor and nature

I will say now that the difference was pointed out, he did not have the longer 'fluff' on his head or his leg area.  


Reliya

by Reliya on 14 July 2017 - 23:07

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