Schutzhund the way it was intended to be - Page 2

I've traveled a path similar to Rik's in terms of what I look for in a dog (though I've never won all the awards he has!)

My first GSD's were rescues, likely from BYB. Then, I wanted to show, so I got a registered dog. It took me a few years to realize that the show line dogs were just bred to look pretty, and most of them couldn't work. And this is SUPPOSED to be a working breed.

So, current dog is a working line. I love her structure and think she's beautiful. Guy I board my dogs with doesn't agree. But he recently had one of his dogs go Excellent Select in the show ring, and I just shake my head when I look at it! Collie head, weak lower jaw, weak ears, neck comes right out of the shoulders, and so do the front legs. I thought the ASL dogs were getting away from the upright front ends, but not this dog! And of course, very long back and extreme angulation in the hind, plus a steep croup.

In defense of the ASL, when I looked at the other Excellent Select dogs, there were a couple I wouldn't have minded taking home with me. But not one of them has a working title of any sort, not even a CD. And that is just not right. I know many members of the GSDCC were strongly against their dogs having to do any sort of temperament testing when the TEC was proposed. That should tell you something about the nerves of these dogs.

There are things in IPO that make me unhappy: the extreme focus on the handler, the artificial prancing gait during obedience, the step-by-step tracking that doesn't allow the dog to sniff left and right of the footsteps (it's basically just focused on crushed vegetation, NOT the human scent, which will drift due to air currents and the ground warming up.)

I'd like to see a less regimented, less artificial routine, something that does more to test the dog's true nature and not just a routine that can be practiced over and over until even a dog with poor nerves/character can be made to look competent.

Maybe testing the dogs on different surfaces like they do with police dogs - say a catwalk made of metal mesh, like they have in a fire escape. Have the decoy hide in a building and the dog has to search for him. That would be a truer test of character and nerve.

Von Stephanitz's book has numerous pictures of GSDs climbing ladders, climbing walls and even trees. Today's dogs seem to have lost that agility. If you look at the structure of the dogs in these old photos, they are built more like malinois. And malinois are the only modern day dogs I've seen displaying similar agility. 

The structure of the current working lines would likey have to change in order for them to do the sorts of things shown in Stephanitz's book, but I'd still like to see the agility of the modern dogs being tested. Bring back the scaling wall, maybe, or introduce the sorts of obstacles police dogs are tested on.

Okay, enough rambling! Will be interesting to see where this goes! 

to be honest, I think there are people in every club I have ever visited, attended events or whatever doing schutzhund the way it was intended to be and with good serious dogs. probably never be famous dog or people.

really, on a local, low scale level, how many people, who work jobs and raise families, are going to waste time it takes to go to club, track (lot of work and time here) , on a dog they know is not real.

the hokie stuff starts happening much higher up and maybe that is what these people can address.

jmo,
Rik

@Rik:

Both the clubs I've belonged to are not shy when it comes to letting someone know that their dog doesn't have what it takes to do the sport.

exactly SS. the more I thought about this topic, the more I realized it's not at the club level Sch. in North America is failing.

I'm guessing we are 2 countries and a couple thousand miles apart. but people are people all over the world.

when I had a GSD that was worth the effort to take to club, I drove 90 miles each way (sorry, I;m American, so don't know how many KM that is). Hot weather, cold weather, wet weather , got there. everyone else making same effort as me.

kids at picnic table doing school work. everyone making sacrifice to be there and all work, helper, trainer, mow field is volunteer.

sometimes everyone pitch in extra to bring helper.

no one going to put time and effort into poor dog or doing Sch wrong way.

Rik

So many times I've seen someone who's interested in the sport realize that their dog isn't as well suited to the sport as it should be. It MIGHT be able to get an IPO 1, and the decoy and trainer will honestly put in the effort if the owner is willing.

Next thing you know...the owner has a new puppy, one that IS suited to the sport!

It will be interesting to see just how different this organization is but I worry if more division is really what we need to keep the sport alive and going.
Sounds like my experiences with club level IPO is about the same as you guys. Club was about 100 miles away for me and that was pretty average for everyone. Extremely dedicated people, good capable dogs and owners that loved them. The dogs that weren't good were given a chance but were eventually told plainly they wouldn't make it. All the clubs I know are pretty selective, if you weren't serious they didn't want you around, even if they needed money or members.

I'm lucky that my club is only 35 min. away, give or take how bad traffic is. And here's how dedicated some people are to the sport. (Not me in the photo - I was the one who took it.)

 

Sunny at least you went out in the snow with them to take the pic !

I wonder what comment the SV will have on this american proposal ? (Keep waiting to see whether Gertrude will pop in to call these plans 'ersatz', too ?).

Oh I was training that day, too! But no one took pictures of me.

This particular club doesn't even have a clubhouse, just a small trailer where we store equipment. The fire barrel gets good use during the cold weather, and I have the burns from sparks on my clothing to prove it!