Old school German Shepherds - Page 5

JonRob

Generation after generation has been kept in kennels, so the most basic house skills are not selected for and are often lost. I assume your showline GSDs, as difficult as they were, didn't crap in your house and then fingerpaint themselves and the house (or their crate) with the mess. The filfthiest GSDs I have ever seen have been working lines, and I've had groomers tell me the same thing. And too many working line GSDs are hysterical wrecks that make the worst showline GSDs look calm.

sounds like exaggeration to extreme.
all my previous dogs till 10 month age lived in kennel but after taking them over to home, 
i never had any issues, described by you.
altrough i always prefered to keep my dogs outside, it wasn't because of possible mess 
but rather due to advantage from living outside in respect of their health. they haven't 
been banned to enter the house but in fact, used to live out, they wasn't really liked to be
inside for prolonged stay. only after move to Canada i started to take dog to sleep into 
house, due to some pretty harsh cold nights, when temperature goes to drop below -20C

Lots of common sense in that post, HerBazhen. Much applies to GSDs, as well.

Yeah, the show ring has ruined many other working breeds. That's why the border collie people fought for so long against AKC recognition!

ValK, it's obvious the poster is resorting to hearsay ("groomers tell me") as opposed to basing these opinions on actual experience. The fact that the same poster said dogs are "praised for leaking drive" gives you an idea of actual experiece. I have personally never heard of anyone saying leaking drive is a good thing, lol. Um, when someone says a dog is leaking drive, that is not a compliment. If one believes that's praise, then perhaps we understand why they're having all these troubles with finding good dogs. ;)

My experience is totally aligned with yours. I have brought many GSDs into my home who were previous kennel dogs and they adjusted seamlessly.

V Madox von der Emsaue, age 4
V Drago Uranium Zwinger, age 5
V Capri vom Hagenberg, age 2 (11 years old now and have NEVER had to clean up after this dog!)
VD Beauty Krasnoocko, age 5

Just to name a few adults I still own who were kennel dogs until I acquired them and NEVER were unclean. All working line dogs, zero showlines.

I have never owned a show line dog. I have had them in my home for extended stays, but never owned one myself. I can't count off the top of my head (could write them all down but that would take a minute) how many working line dogs I have had/owned and I have only had one, a recent female, who would soil her crate on occasion (about once every month or so), and I suspect due to the fact that her litter-mate does the same in a pet home, that they were not raised in a very clean manner. 99.9% of GSDs I have experienced firsthand would sooner DIE than soil themselves, their crates, or my home. I can't wrap my head around this bizarre hatred for working line GSDs, or the inaccurate information being spread about them vs. their black and red counterparts.

Like I said before, I am not going to waste my time arguing about this. If you think it's hearsay, suit yourself. I have no interest in convincing you otherwise. Go buy an insane spinning extreme-drive working lines GSD and find out for yourself.

BTW, my superdog was a working lines GSD--the rare calm kind that refused to bite on command and had zero drive (balls? you threw it, you get it, was his attitude). Instead of extreme drive, he had faultless judgment, a kind and brave heart, and a strong sense of duty. He didn't have to "control" some extreme drive. He calmly went about his business and functioned perfectly in the real world under the most stressful conditions. I have never met a more trustworthy dog.

And for those of you who don't already know, Jenni's latest series of tantrums about my posts started after I reminded people of how openly sympathetic she is to people who use dogs for fighting. Think about the following the next time she prattles on about "proper aggression" in GSDs or before you consider buying the puppies she breeds:

When someone posted this:

"Do the AKC and UKC even care who is a registered breeder anymore? This guy is an avid dog fighter and even has pics on his Facebook page and still he maintains his AKC/UKC registration."

Jenni responded with this:

"Why would they care about a legal activity taking place in another country?"

and this:

"Plus, dog fighting is only abhorred in certain areas/cultures. It's quite narrow-minded (a typical American affliction) to think that other countries and cultures find it as disgraceful as we do. 

Again, I repeat...why would they care what some guy does in Indonesia?"

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/community.read?post=433334-akc--ukc-registered-dog-fighter#433488

 

Thank you too Jen !

I must say...with most of the Blackies I've dealt with, it was the owners. It was either that they thought making a dog mind was "mean", or they liked having a mountain of a dog, lunging, barking and growling, straining at the end of their leash. You know, the same folks that like GSD's, Rotties, Pitties, and Dobe's.Tough guy dogs. I had one full on attack me, because of the way a "tough guy" raised him, doing as he pleased, with no correction.....ever. He was off leash, humping everything in sight, not listening to his owner, when he decided to go for my 10 month old Deuce. I protect my dogs. Lets just say I acquired the dogs focus, and gave him a years worth of correction , in one sitting.

Funny thing was...many of the spectators viewed me as "the bad guy" because I was "mean" to the dog. The guy who owned him ran to stop his dog yelling " Don't kill my dog ! " . He tackled him, and got bit, then wouldn't talk to me for over a year.

Sunsilver... Brt's got accepted to AKC in 2003....The Club was excited. I heard a death knell....

Jonrob.... AKC doesn't care what some guy in indonesia is doing. They mostly don't care what people in the US are doing. Dog shows used to be about breeding stock. Now it's all about $$ and pretty. Hunting dogs don't hunt, herding dogs don't herd, and working dogs don't work. Mention training you BRT in protection one time, and you instantaneously grow horns and a tail.The short time I spent in the show rings, pretty much disgusted me. Mind you, there were some who didn't lose track...but the majority was ego, cheating, and judgeing on the wrong end of the lead. In America...as in any other country in the world, we think other people should do as we do. Reality shows that is not the way it is. Dog fighting is accepted in other countries...no matter how cruel we think it is. We, as Americans eat cows.... and ya know...there are some who think them sacred. I don't think recognising that, is the same as supporting dog fighting. Of course, "what I think" is the perfect example of what I was talking about.... It doesn't mean anyone else has to think like me.
 

JonRob, tantrum? I have had no tantrums. I simply counter false statements with what I know to be true after 15 years actually living every day with working line GSDs, and breeding multiple generations. You are spewing disparaging and false statements right and left about dogs you have little to no experience with. Many of us have LIVED with these dogs as integral parts of our families for decades and you're maligning them as crazy, spinners, fingerpainters, etc. and it's just false. Patently false, as anyone who actually has working dogs will tell you. I've seen photos of Cliff's grandkids walking his dogs he's training for police work. Look at Joan's pictures. I don't quite have her motivation for posting pics, but I am tempted, now. That is the correct working line GSD. You seem to have "heard" about some bad apples and are condemning the whole line and any dog who fits the standard in temperament. A GSD w/no drive and no aggression is no more the standard than the type you abhor. I will go to my grave maintaining that a stable dog with strong aggression is a safer companion for a child than a neurotic, unstable dog with less aggression.

And seriously...this dog-fighting ruse is just comical. I stated a fact- the AKC is a registry, not INTERPOL. They do not care what goes on in Indonesia, and like HerBazhen said...they likely don't even care what goes on here. Quite a leap to imply I am a participant! You can't dispute my factual statements on the working line GSD as a whole, so you paint me as a dog fighter in an attempt to damage my credibility. Pretty low. And pretty repulsive. If I didn't think it should stand as a testament to your frame of mind, I might call it libel.

 

Libel, my ass. Good luck with that one. Your own words speak for themselves. I'm one of those "narrow-minded" folks who find dog fighting abhorrent no matter where it takes place. And everyone I've shown your dog fighting posts to has been shocked and revolted by them.

"you paint me as a dog fighter"

Not one post (by me anyway) claims that you are a dog fighter. Maybe someone else did? But your own words show that you are openly sympathetic to people who use dogs for fighting. No amount of backpedaling now will change that. But at least you now have one supporter--HerBazhen--who appears to share your sympathy for people who use dogs for fighting.

Enough of this back and forth crap that has nothing to do with the topic.

 

One thing for sure...the characterization of working line dogs I’m reading from some paints a very limited picture.

Hear hear Gustav ! From here in the UK, I can't think of the last time I encountered a WL bred dog, even when about to go on the training field and thus perhaps excusably 'wound up', which was spinning and hysterical. If any of them are unclean indoors, that lies at the door of their owner/trainer, not the dog - which, as others point out, being the GSD will normally be mortified at the very thought of messing in the house. Painting the walls sounds like a permanently kennelled (and none too well cleaned up after) dog which nobody has taken the time to housetrain, to me. And yes I have met a few of those.

But so that the W/Ls don't have all the praise, it is a good few years now since I set eyes on a S/L that did any of that, either. We here DID have an incipient problem a few years back, as I have mentioned here before I am sure; but serious Show breeders got on top of that before it became endemic.

All this proves is that in the breed AS A WHOLE there are good and bad dogs, good and bad temperaments, good and bad breeding, good and bad training & management.


Oh, and Jenni & I have had a number of discussions about Pits though these forum pages, I cannot think of ONE posting she has made which would qualify as a "dog fighting post".