Is my male intact GSD unhappy or stressed if he does not mate? - Page 4

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by Allan1955 on 02 February 2020 - 08:02

The purpose of every living organism is to reproduce. True. That does not mean they will at any given chance. Rats in Asia postpone their breeding until the rice is harvested. This is a different behavior of the same species in other circumstances. Pack animals like wild dogs, wolfs, or meerkats have their own breeding behavior tailored to the long term survival of the species. This includes the avoidance of inbreeding by the promotion outcross. The homozygosity that arises from inbreeding is an existential threat to the species. That is the reason why there usually one breeding pair in a pack. The rest will have to outcross and form a pack of their own.

The neutering of dogs to influence their behavior is a practice that arises from neutering stallions and bulls to make them docile to manage in farm work. That is because these species have to fight a rival for the right to mate.         This is to ensure that the best genes get transmitted, witch  is fundamental to their survival. Dogs have a different breeding strategy and therefore don't have the urge for aggression or other kind of unwanted behavior when excluded from mating. Studies have shown that behavioral problems with intact males/ female dogs are more likely prone to bad handling or temperament issues of the individual dog than anything els.

 

 

 


Gsdlover91

by Gsdlover91 on 02 February 2020 - 13:02

If I may share my thoughts... I think we realize, that even for those that are experienced, reputable, responsible breeders, everyone is entitled to his own opinion and lots of folks have their different idea as to why they feel the way they do something is what’s best. (And just cause it’s different doesn’t mean it’s wrong)
Now, I do believe across the board that a good breeder is definitely going to breed his dogs only for bettering the breed and not “just because he thinks his dog is smart, pretty, or just wants to have sex.” We as humans have the ability to think in ways that dogs were not created. That being said, I’m not sure that I would say that dogs can even think, they just do what they were bred to do when the breeding has been done right and thorough. We (mankind) have dominion over the animals. It is our job to be responsible and chose wisely. Now, I understand The one that posted the initial question is now banned from here, but why argue that animals first instinct is procreation? Or everything for that matter... it’s just a natural desire for any living being because God created it that way. He created all living creatures, but not neccasarly to procreate. God commanded that every living thing go forth and continue to replenish the earth! Everything is living for a purpose and we eat, drink, and “make babies” to continue to fulfill that purpose. And we as humans must be responsible caretakers. Which in turn means we don’t just let our stud dogs bred JUST because they want too. We don’t let our 12-13 yr old son go have sex just because he has the desire to now?!! I would hope not. A good responsible breeder will want to breed his dog/s with a dog that first had the quality or desirable characteristics that help better the breed and just to top it off, his beauty. Not everyone breeds or buys a dog cause they want a “working dog” but that being said, even a pet dog is usually doing some kind of work for us, like guarding, protecting, work on the farm, etc, etc... anyways there’s some of my 10 cents. Not an argument, just my idea. As we all have different ideas and can learn from each other. Thanks to those of you members who post most of the time for your advice, and experience! I do respect and look forward to reading your posts!

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 03 February 2020 - 04:02

I have a lot of sympathy with your line of argument GSDLover, and I acknowledge on my other thred that questions of religion may come into peoples' thinking on this topic. However, I just have to ask you: suppose others do not hold your God responsible and do not believe ' Man has dominion over animals ' ?

Suspect that if one applies religious doctrine to this topic, some could equally well argue that they think 'because it is God's will' that animals reproduce, they should be allowed to do so without restriction !

Allan'55, quite agree. There is nothing that compels us to breed animals under our care, and indeed this is often self-limited by reason of downright unsuitability of some of our animals to reproduce their genes - if we know a dog is unduly aggressive or carrying some disease, surely the last thing we should do is to allow them to reproduce.
Not sure this line of thought settles the argument about whether it is the drive to mate or the drive to feed which takes precedence, though.


Another interesting snippet I came across recently: one of the experiments undertaken by the Space Station was that 8 quails eggs were taken on board, and studied after they hatched in zero gravity. Apparently the male birds had negligible testosterone levels and neither males nor females showed any interest in mating, egg-laying etc when they reached the appropriate breeding age, but all continued to eat.

Rik

by Rik on 03 February 2020 - 18:02

I have never seen a male dog exhibit any "sex interest" (other than leg humping puppies),

unless triggered by scent of female in heat.

they are not like humans. I don't think they have a "build up" that needs to be released, nor do I believe they are more/less satisfied with life
with or without breeding.

I have had quite a few intact males that lived long lives without breeding and they always seemed to be very happy just to be with me, until they got that scent.

jmo,
Rik

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 04 February 2020 - 04:02

[ASIDE] Rik - I don't happen to believe humans have a 'build-up' that needs to be relieved, either ! Too often been used as an excuse for less-than-honorable sexual behaviour, no ?

Rik

by Rik on 04 February 2020 - 10:02

well, maybe I could have put it more delicately, but my point is that I have never noticed my dogs have any interest in reproducing except when biologicaly triggered.

 just my opinion on the orginal question but I don't think dogs have any interest at all in reproduction until these triggers come into play. they are niether happy or unhappy about it.

and just for the record, and not to get into the PC world, I think it is most often bad people, alcohol or drug influence that leads to "less than honorable" and there is no excuse for poor behavior by anyone.


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 04 February 2020 - 11:02

100% agree, Rik !

Rik

by Rik on 04 February 2020 - 11:02

I am neither Dr. Ruth nor an animal behavior specialist. I do however watch a lot of animal shows on the science channels. :)

one of the most interresting  is about elephants. I can;t remember the title or the channel, sorry.  at a cerain time of the year, they go into rut and begin a journy of sometimes 100's of miles to a breeding ground. many are solitary males, so not triggered by proximity of females in heat until they get there.

I can only assume that the "trigger" is some biological need to reproduce. it is really amazing how they all end up in the same spot at the same time and deffinetly worth the watch.

as stated earlier, this need is different in different species and it does seem that it's mostly humans and primates (and maybe a few other animals) that engage in sex for recreational purposes.

and if anyone wants to see examples of less than honorable behavior, watch some of the studies on sea otters.


Gsdlover91

by Gsdlover91 on 04 February 2020 - 17:02

Hundmutter, you have asked a good question, as to whether others believe or not that God made that man have Dominion over the animals. I know there are people out there who would disagree with me or don’t believe in God. But in referral to my 1st post, even if someone wouldn’t agree, it is still obvious that we humans take care of them and domestic animals depend on us for their care and they don’t have the mind to think to do what is best for themselves in all circumstances. So, on that even, we as responsible pet owners would know that we have to make the best desicions we can for our animals. We should all know that.
Did I understand your 1st question correctly there hundmutter?
As far as the next statement on it being God’ will for them to reproduce and just let it go cause that was God’s plan, well, I guess that is another argument someone could start or believe differently. I believe that God still expects is to be responsible! With our own lives and our animals lives, and the world around us as well! Their are a lot of people out there that have children left and right and don’t even know how to be parents, or can’t handle them cause they have too many, well it’s is God’s will for us to reproduce, and multiply as for the animals as well, BUT again, with proper care and responsibility!!! That includes health, genetics, brains, and ability. For dogs as well as us humans. If a husband and wife decide they want to raise a family (this is my belief) they want to be sure they are healthy (and don’t have any serious health problems they’ll pass on to there children), they are responsible enough to start raising a family, they space each child to where they can give each child the proper care they need or till they can handle a 2nd, 3rd, kid or so on... not just having babies left and right and mom and dad can’t handle it and the kids don’t get the proper care that they all need. If that means for some just having one or two kids than so be it. At least they are being responsible and not having more kids just because they know they can’t handle it. Well, it’s the same way with our pets, they don’t know enough to know what they can handle or what’s best, so we need to take control, just like I’m not gonna bred male female every heat she has because I know what’s best for her and care about her. I want her to have a break and be back in good health again before she has another litter. I mean, for peats sake, I know what it’s like to be pregnant and have babies, it wears you out, and yeah, I was created to have babies, but I do need to be able to handle it and be back in proper health again before I’m ready for another one!
Anyways, am I making sense here? I’m starting to get people involved now, lol. There are comparisons though, in my mind. But I do know, there will always be those that disagree and there’s always gonna be a need for more thoughtful, caring, responsible, people (breeders). I guess for the guy that originally asked the question about his male dog was obviously getting his own desires mixed up with that of his dogs. A don’t believe a dog lives to want to reproduce, but that instinct is there when the proper time comes and a female comes into season. Other than that left alone and around no female that’s in heat, the thought of breeding a female never crosses his mind.?? I think so....

Gsdlover91

by Gsdlover91 on 04 February 2020 - 17:02

Also agree with Rik 100%!!!





 


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