KNPV trouble - Page 8

Pedigree Database

 

by Hired Dog on 23 June 2020 - 19:06

Valk, thank you for your reply. The reason I take 51% and give my dog 49% is because I am indeed in charge.
In over 40 years of dogs, I can count in one hand the number of dogs that wanted to violently demonstrate to me their desire to "dominate" me through violence and those dogs did not last very long around me.
See Valk, my FIRST requirement of any dog that lives in my house is that I am able to live with that dog and be happy about that dog being in my house with me because at the end of the day, after its all said and done, I will be with that dog 24 hours and most of those will not be working hours.

I do remember a few years a go, its over 100 degrees outside, the dog is in the AC in the car, its the end of the day and there is one more search to do. Dog has been working all day in that heat, its tired, but, when I opened that door, that dog gave me all she had, searching every single item I asked her to search.
The why here my friend is because of the relationship we had, build through correct training and spending time to bond and having fun together.
At one point, I did subscribe to your philosophy too, "I must be the master the dog must be made to be my servant" or whatever you want to call it, no more sir, I found a different way to approach training.
Having said that, if I tell the dog to perform a command that it KNOWS and I know it knows it, that command WILL happen, no question, because I have no problem correcting disobedience, hard enough to make you think twice.
So, I do tell my dog to climb, jump, crawl, bite, release and everything else in-between and the dog does them, out of respect, out of understanding our relationship and whatever else you want to call it.
Oh, before I forget, selecting the right dog for the right job is priority number one...

by ValK on 28 June 2020 - 21:06

look Hired, i'm not argue you. after all, if you have been or still involved in pro. handling of dogs, you have your own experience and based on it views and you do know what you are doing.
what i did noticed is your tend to prevailing today trend of complication of relation between human and dog on the foundation of philosophical humanitarian approach.
i stand on opposite side. from very beginning i've been taught not to expect dog's perception to human level but contrary - learn to lower own to dog's level of perception. because that's how one could get better understanding and communication with dog.
dog's knowledge about rank subordination embedded among dog's instincts. but dog absolutely not familiar with concept and meaning of partnership, other than a pack's coordinated actions. even then, such partnership has very strict hierarchical structure.
arithmetic of 51 to 49 ratio honestly for me is meaningless. doesn't mean i keeping permanent oppression my dogs. in our relation i just holding balance in which my role of fair leader a MUST be indisputable and with dogs, who's tend to have some form of dominant gut, this just necessity.
as i mentioned previously - if dog senses weakness, such dog wouldn't hesitate to take over leadership, including by violent means.

by Hired Dog on 29 June 2020 - 05:06

Valk, I sometimes wonder why I answer or get involved in posts in here, does that ever happen to you?
100 years a go, the surgical removal of an appendage involved a bottle of whisky and a good stick for you to bite on while the good Dr with a rusty hacksaw did his job.
Today, we have this thing called anesthesia, usually administered by a Dr who specializes in that field and a Dr who performs the removal under sterile circumstances, no whisky and no wood to bite on.
100 years a go, Col Conrad Most advocated that beating a dog was the ONLY way to train it and have the animal retain the knowledge.
Today we have better methods. Its not complicated, it is human and there is no philosophical anything involved.
I am a BALANCED trainer, one who will use rewards to get my objectives accomplished, but, also one who will use the E collar to do the same, after you understand what I want from you.
Why would I beat you every time I told you to do something in MY language, which you dont speak, when I can give you a $20 every time you do it and you learn that it makes me happy when you do?
Now, after you learn it and learn it well, I have no problem correcting you into next week if you decide to blow me off and not comply because then I know I am being fair to you, a life I chose to bring into mine.
As far as this "dominant" and "dog taking over by violent means", tell me, when in the last 20 years have you experienced this?
Current puppy has that dominant nature, has some sharpness, but, nothing that keeps me up at night, nothing that I worry about, certainly nothing that will cause me to train him in any different way and TODAY, 2 weeks after I got him, he follows me everywhere, eats out of my hand, walks down the street like he has been trained to, even though he has not, respects me like he is supposed to, excluding the usual puppy stuff and I am very pleased with his performance, so far, at 11 weeks almost. Its too bad its 106 degrees outside because he is a tracking machine and I would love to do some tracking with him. Have a great day, I must get to work.


by apple on 29 June 2020 - 21:06

Valk,
This modern humanitarian philosophical approach as you call it, has nothing to do with anything philosophical or humanitarian. It is about the science of learning and applies to single cell organisms across the continuum of organisms up to humans. You call it complicated. It is only complicated because you are unwilling to educate yourself about modern, scientific learning principles. That does not mean purely positive or that rank hierarchy by does not need to be established, but that is not meat of the issue.

by ReichertCaleb on 30 June 2020 - 03:06

After your dog has remembered his name, you can start training him. And this is a very basic command that many people apply and succeed at home.

First, you stand about 5m away from them. If your dog runs after you and doesn't sit still, you should ask someone else to help you keep it there. Then you call them aloud with a command. The command may be "come here", "run here" ... with a wave, clap. If they come, reward and give them a compliment. Repeating this command every day.
Once your dog is accustomed to a distance of 5m, continue with a further distance of 10m. Keep doing the same gestures and commands until your dog gets used to it. Do not forget to reward and caress praise them!

by Hired Dog on 30 June 2020 - 06:06

Valk, I forgot to mention yesterday that anyone who has trained dogs for an extended period of time, did not start out using the methods currently used. There was much hanging and choking and many other "tools" not generally discussed among polite company. There was a large agency that trained their dogs to bond with their handler by having another person throw the leash of a dog over a 6 foot wall and hang the dog on one side of it, literally, and when the dog was half dead almost, the handler would come in and take the dog in his arms, "rescuing" its life and thereby building that bond...what bovine excrement!!!!!!

I know for a fact my dogs have looked up to me because I control ALL resources, you want to eat? It comes from me, drink? Comes from me, play toys? Me again. That is what being in charge means and dogs will respect and follow a strong "leader", not someone abusive.
I saw the article posted by Emory about those trainers in the KNPV and while I am no withering flower, I find it hard to accept that a kick to my dog's side is called a training procedure. Kick when the dog is seriously trying to remove a part of me, sure, all day, every day, but, if your relationship is not built on trust and mutual respect, why even bother having that dog to train?

I think that a lot of people are caught up in "who has the toughest dog" mentality, whose dog is the baddest and I have no interest in that. Will my current dog bite for real? I have no idea, when he is 2-3 he MIGHT, but, that is pure conjecture on my part right now. Will he be the baddest, toughest dog ever that needs that type of training and daily reminders? I hope not because I will sell him before that happens.
At the end of the day Valk, I look at my relationship with my dog in the same light I see my relationship with another human, never forgetting that the dog is not a human, but, still based on respect and a mutually beneficial relationship.
Oh, before I forget, dogs do understand partnerships, not in the same way you and I do, but, they KNOW...have a great day.

BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 30 June 2020 - 08:06


https://nltimes.nl/2020/06/29/seven-arrested-abusing-police-dogs-training

Very hypocrit dutch police buy dogs many years  from KNPV trainers , some  LE police handlers train with that same people and clubs
and now the dutch police arrest some trainers , this is a mirror how the the politic in Holland works today....


by Hired Dog on 30 June 2020 - 10:06

BM, the world knows that the police buy their dogs from the KNPV. The world knows that a lot of malinois all over the world come from the KNPV ranks and that many officers train in the KNPV as well, however, the law should be the law and if you break it, you get arrested, regardless of who you are.
If you were a police officer and you had to arrest a fellow KNPV club member, you may not like it, but, its your job to enforce the law. I dont see it as hypocritical, I see it as you should not doing things that invite the attention of law enforcement if you dont want to get arrested.

BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 30 June 2020 - 10:06

 

 


HD hope you uderstand the definition of hypovrit



So why the police don,t arrest their own LE oficers who train many , many many years exacly the same
way as most handlers do. ,,,,,,,,,with hard corrections.and punishment....

 

 






 


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