malinois kill soldier who is taking care of them - Page 2

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by ali44 on 17 November 2019 - 04:11

High prey is genetic and enhanced by training. What about Frustration, where does it come from?

by duke1965 on 17 November 2019 - 04:11

genetic as well, some have it, some dont, experienced handlers can handle to a certain level, certainly not for everybody

 


by Hired Dog on 17 November 2019 - 05:11

As long as people think that these dogs are pets, this will continue. The Malinois is NOT a pet, it is a working dog and should be treated as one.
Duke, experienced handlers can indeed handle it like you said, but, it gets old and stressful after a while. Working with ANY breed that does not have at least a degree of clarity in their head will be a long, frustrating experience.

by duke1965 on 17 November 2019 - 05:11

Hired, this was not a pet home where this happened,

I had many malis and xmalis with frustration issues that could be worked around, took multiple malinois from czech and german police for these kind of issues that are now working the street with experienced handlers, but still till today see people making mistakes with these type of dogs, where they try to dominate and/or punish these dogs for that behaviour, and that will 99% of time backfire, as its not a trained behaviour that you can "untrain "

 


by Hired Dog on 17 November 2019 - 05:11

I know it was not a pet home where the incident took place Duke, I was talking about the popularity of these dogs rising after the movies and the ISIS dog you mentioned earlier.

I absolutely agree with you with the rest of your statement, no questions or arguments here. The punishment/domination part comes from people who are "macho" and without any experience being around dogs like that, plus, the shit training these guys get from other "trainers" that came out of a "beat the dog down" attitude because that is all they know.

25 years a go, I owned a Malinois that had a very "colorful" backround before I got him. His problem is that he had a little bit of a frustration issue, but, he was mostly a very serious dog that did not take well to unfair corrections and he was very willing to show you how he felt about that.
When you are used to dominate a dog, working with one that is now very happy to dominate you becomes a humbling experience. In my opinion Duke, some training methods changed in LE training in the USA because when the Malinois became popular as a police dog here, trainers had to figure out a way to train and work that breed without having to "wear" one 3 times a week.

That dog Duke taught me how to be a better trainer/handler and how to work a dog from a mutually respectful position because being physical with a dog like that who is very willing to get just as physical with you, is never fun.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 17 November 2019 - 06:11

Frustration can be deadly. It's exactly what happens in all the pitbull mixes too. It's pure preyaggression x frustration.

It's in the German Shepherd too and can be found in the Rottweiler as well. Especially young males, right around the 10-15 months mark, when they can't handle themselves, they can slip into frustration and if you don't know what you are doing, it can be deadly. How do people think Toddlers get killed by dogs? However, most Shepherds mature out of it, whereas certain type of Malinois seem to mature into it.

by Gustav on 17 November 2019 - 07:11

I have preached for thirty years that when a breed becomes unbalanced in the genetic composition to achieve competitive excellence in sport or show, the breed starts to deteriorate.
A good GS or good Mal with natural balance are awesome working dogs, enhanced color, structure, angulation, prey, needed to reach top in sport or show, eventually will lead to unsuitability for what the breed was made for. Sooner or later whichever comes first....look at ASL dogs! 


by Hired Dog on 17 November 2019 - 07:11

Frustration, as the name implies, is the lack of appropriate drive expression. It builds and builds and continues to build to the point that there is not an outlet big enough or the physical being of the dog cannot handle the levels that are bred/built into the dog and the dog "explodes".
This trend of breeding higher and higher drive dogs that can compete in dog sport is catching up. Some of those dogs are spilling over to the LE side and for sure to the pet side as well.

50-100 years a go, these dogs had an outlet for these drives, they worked as herders, running 16 hours a day. Today, they sit most of the day building up. You can take your dog out and play ball, try to drain some build up, but, how long can that dog last, physically...same thing with bite work.
Dogs today do not have the outlets they had when they actually worked for a living, but, we still breed them with even higher drives that do not have a proper mechanism in place to relieve that frustration.

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 17 November 2019 - 08:11

It's not just for sport. It's for work too. They want dogs with more drive, more possession, more and more and more and then give them to inexperienced first time handlers... that can't go well.

by duke1965 on 17 November 2019 - 08:11

LOL, and next thing they want them to out the ball without conflict





 


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