Reckless Aggression , where does it comme from, and which lines are known to pass it down? - Page 2

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GK1

by GK1 on 26 September 2019 - 20:09

The Malis I own will run, chase, swim, tug etc. until physical failure if I let them due to high prey intensity, as well as natural endurance. I suppose this trait could be labeled reckless, although it could be advantageous depending on the task. Most Malinois should have this trait as this breed is among the supreme athletes of the canine world. Disregarding obstacles and distractions while in pursuit of the bite on a decoy during a training scenario may be a byproduct of similar prey intensity. But willingly continuing to fight against a resisting adversary like another animal or suspect that actually fights back violently, inflicts injuries…that's a different trait than what’s queried in the op.

emoryg

by emoryg on 26 September 2019 - 21:09

Running across water, mud, dodging tables and chairs being thrown for a bite is not being reckless. It comes from desire and the accompanying need to fulfill it. Varies greatly depending on the dog.

by K9L1 on 26 September 2019 - 21:09

GK1 it is well known that game dogs like pit bulls readily continue to fight in the face of both injury and resulting pain. what trait causes that?
emoryg: in water and wet mud drowning is a risk. slipping of un- sturdy tables or chairs or rolling drums does convey a sense of danger; persevering intensely inspite of these things can be considered reckless.
BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 26 September 2019 - 21:09

 


In KNPV are some of  this dogs X malis , match with the right handler and where you train there is no problem I have owned some and I know handlers who looking only for this type of dogs.not that stupid  blind dogs ,but dogs with plenty drives and fight

Duco 2 /Castor de Groot / Backhaus / Django  /Ody  are some lines you can find this

 

When  such dogs gonna sold to police departments  there can be problems  many handlers can,t control dog like this today.

 

by K9L1 on 26 September 2019 - 22:09

BM
I agree. Many folks and even experienced handlers end up returning these dogs because some of them can be very difficult to manage while in drive or even out of drive.
emoryg

by emoryg on 26 September 2019 - 22:09

K9L1, I guess what some dogs may consider reckless, is just another day at the office for others like Hired Dog works.

I have sent dogs in crawlspaces, culverts, creek beds, under cars, trailers, industrial dishwashers, attics, junk piles, over fences, off a cliff (by accident), through the mud to get guys hiding like they were Rambo, buses, construction trailers, theme parks and many other places. They have been kicked, punched, beat over the head, squeezed, strangled, ears ripped and torn, … Never once did they ever give me the impression they felt in danger. On the contrary, by the looks of their tails, I think they were rather enjoying themselves. I’m sticking with my desire theory.


BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 26 September 2019 - 22:09

 

@K9L1 yep that happened a lot this dogs goes from handler to handler who can,t control those drives,

by apple on 27 September 2019 - 10:09

K9L1,
Gameness in pit bulls is a trait in itself and not caused by another trait. It doesn't just refer to fighting. It also refers to a motivation to never give up, regardless of the task. Some non FCI KNPV Mal X's have pit bulls in the lineage. The term game dead refers to a dog that will fight to the death. Regarding your question about recklessness, another trait that could explain what you are describing is rage. It is basically a furious, uncontrolled anger triggered by frustration overload.

by Hired Dog on 27 September 2019 - 10:09

Apple, nothing wrong with rage when its directed at someone and its controlled by the animal itself, but, the dog must be clear headed to be able to still function.
I have seen many guys trying to pump a dog up at an open door way, to put that dog in a rage before sending it in for a building search.
To me, that is the wrong dog to own for that type of work, but, it is what it is. Your last post sort of stirred something in me when I think of that dog, you are correct, that dog was a hair away from rage at ALL times.
You can see it in him, you can feel it around him, he was looking for something to set him off, at home, at work, during training, all the time. Its like he relished combat more then anything else, certainly more then breeding which he really did not have an interest in.
I was always very curious about him, was he a one off? I found out that he had a brother who worked for a neighboring agency who was the exact same way, so, it was a genetic issue that made the dogs like that.
With him it was always a question of when he would explode and at who or what and you were walking on eggshells the entire time around him because you never knew. I dont know about others, but, that is not a good way to live.

by apple on 27 September 2019 - 11:09

Stimulating a dog to get him "enraged" is different that the genetic trait/syndrome of rage or idiopathic aggression. GSDs are somewhat prone to it. Genetic rage overrides self preservation and is not a trait that is selected for in breeding. It is akin to a canine mental disorder.


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