Pulling instead of Pushing Bite - Page 12

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by ValK on 01 August 2019 - 17:08

what being discussed in here, is an artificial implementation on the dogs the way to perform fight as human wanna see it.
that ok. if dogs is purposed to be flashy circus performers but not for real confrontation.
mother nature already did this. as emorig said above - dogs know how to fight on the level of instinct. only needs are in the bringing that knowledge to perfection on technical side in application against human opponent.
b.t.w. in nature, during the fight by teeth, most efficient are multiple tearing bites to inflict maximum hurt and injuries.

by Centurian on 01 August 2019 - 18:08

Hmmmm , in nature ...

Don't turn a blind eye to the fact that one of the most lethal bites of many animals : is a one fast , hard and full crushing bite to the thoat ! Just saying [ Side note : I have had a few GS that could almost bite and crush , break your arm in the blink of an eye but if it were not for very heavily padded protection gear. Just saying ..

The problem with a tearing bite with some** animals [ or dogs too ] ,is that once the tissue is torn ,depending the bite , there may be the need for another bite . In esence that may** give the opponent another chance. That first bite may or it may not, end the combat. And if one is to understand animals - they are better off doing a task in the most efficiency and most proficient manner. [ and most times they do ] Just saying...

by ValK on 01 August 2019 - 19:08

fast , hard and full crushing bite to the thoat

sure, this has place but very rare and usually on weaker prey. 
the fight with equal or stronger opponent happens also rare. animals quite good in evaluating own chances and necessity of confrontation and prefer to avoid fight. should be obvious that equal opponent has same knowledge how to fight and wouldn't expose own throat for opponent's bite.
what makes certain dog breeds differ from wild predators is an intentional selection for guarding/protection purpose, regardless of size and strength of opponent to be faced. in fact absence of this quality (readiness to sacrifice own life to protect master) was main cause of failure zPS program of wolf hybrids. selfpreservation instinct way too strong, albeit in many other aspects those hybrids was superior.

have had a few GS that could almost bite and crush , break your arm in the blink of an eye

you mean bone in finger of adult's arm :)


by yogidog on 01 August 2019 - 20:08

Cent would not mind pedigree of these dogs and maybe a video. Other that that I can receive all this information in a book. I'd like to see you back up some of your statements thanks either way

by Hired Dog on 02 August 2019 - 10:08

First, a bite isnt meant to end a fight, its meant to distract the subject and allow the handler to get to his weapon/help the dog. Indeed, there are instances where the fight WILL end because the subject bitten is not as "hard" as someone else may be, but, again, the dog is supposed to cause pain compliance, which MAY end a fight.
Valk, the days and dogs you speak of are long gone, either you can let go and move on, or, if you are so inclined, start a breeding program with the end goal being to produce dogs that you like and speak of.
Centurion, you write walls of words, with many misspelled words which makes it very difficult to follow what you are trying to convey. I agree with Yogi, produce something because all this talk is starting to sound suspicious.
Emory, you are the ONE person in here with real, actual street experience, but, I feel that you are somehow holding back from truly expressing how you feel, maybe because of the PC climate that is pervading all facets of life today.
For me, at the end of the day, as long as my dog has a solid bite and is willing to stay in the fight with a violent subject, I am good gentlemen. Push, pull, a combo of the two, as long as the above mentioned qualities are there, that is what is important to me.
One last comment before I leave, its called a K-9 UNIT or TEAM because its more then just the dog involved in an altercation...there is a human component there in the form of a handler who has a duty to assist his/her partner as much as they can. Enjoy your day.

by duke1965 on 02 August 2019 - 11:08

Amen to that

by Centurian on 02 August 2019 - 12:08

Hired dog ... True I always say that when it comes to dogs , they are 50% of the equation and the handler is equally the other 50% of the equation . Officer and dog work as a team ! I wrote about animals biting to stimulate people ' to think ' about the facets of a dog's bite . For I have already written : " a bite is just not a bite ". True .. the dog's purpose is to assist the officer and aid the officer[s] as well as protect the officer .

Hired , Apologies for the mis spelled words . I have a problem typing and when I edit and correct text, quite often , for some reason I can't figure out , the text does not get transferred corrected after I hit the send buttton . Also , many times I write in indented paragraph form, but , the text gets sent and appears in block form .

Yogi - I write this with politeness . I share thoughts and ideas . No one has to believe or agree with what I write .Those ideas and thoughts have nothing to do with me personally. I do not write to prove myself , I have nothing to prove . I already made my grade in the dog world and accomplished what I sought out to do with my dogs. I wrote , I do not need fame , glory , any more trophies , or money . Nor do I need ego boosts .
30 years ago , my mentor suggested that I never ever ever demo my dogs , show off my dogs . In his words " those that have been doing this for a long time will resent you . They will not be grateful to you for sharing your understanding or demonstrating what you have learned . Instead of welcoming you to their clubs , they will take offense at you " .

I have had 1 Belgium Malinois , and over 30 GSDs in my lifetime , WL and SL GSs. All but 2 GSs I raised from pups to their adult life until death. However , if you wish I would be more than happy to share privately in a PM with you my background. Not that presenting qualifications should make a difference because in reality  even inexperienced people have something of value to share . I personally listen to what everybody has to say even if that is the first day that person has ever worked with a dog. I do not look up at someone nor do I look down at anyone. Listening doesn't cost anything and no matter what I read or hear , I think for myself .." What concerns / matters to me : is not what other people say and do in life but rather , what concerns / matters to me is what I say and do in life ". What does other peoples' dogs have to do what I do with my dogs and vice a verse. Besides many of the dogs in the stories that I have written about have passed away and I have no videos of them . Many of the dogs I had , video was not even around at that time. With sincerity , if you PM me I will reply and would share some of my experience out of respect to your request. If not , no hard feelings ...

by ValK on 02 August 2019 - 14:08

Hired Dog
Valk, the days and dogs you speak of are long gone

a bite isnt meant to end a fight, its meant to distract the subject and allow the handler to get to his weapon/help the dog

how come gone?, if almost half of dogs/pups in "Classified" have assurance from sellers to be suitable for LE/PP :)

and what about people, who isn't work in law enforcement, do not carry guns and buy those dogs in hope if shit happens, 
the dog would be there to protect them, their loved ones or their belongings?

by Hired Dog on 02 August 2019 - 15:08

Valk, "how come gone" is because society in general, has deemed them no longer necessary, except for the small percentage of individuals/groups, who are interested in them.
Indeed, some of the dogs being advertised can indeed do the work you mentioned, maybe not to your liking, but, they are out there working...
The people who need protection and dont carry a gun need to actually become well studied consumers of working type animals and spend some time talking to and checking with purveyors of those types of dogs so that when the proverbial "shit" happens, they will be ready.
Contrary to what you may believe sir, dogs today are not being bred per your standard but the standard the majority of consumers are demanding and that majority sir is not interested in the type of dog you want.
You need to realize that we live in a very litigious society when people can and will sue you for everything you own...these dogs are a liability in the majority of the common consumer's hands.
Your ideas may have merit in the past, in a different country, under a different system, but, here, today, most of the general populous is interested in a dog that is, for the most part, a social whore that can be taken anywhere and be approached by anyone.
That does not mean I agree with the above mentioned concept, but, it is reality sir.

by duke1965 on 02 August 2019 - 15:08

but we have to realize, as soon as all agression, hardness and dominance, is bred out, there is no turning back, at least not within the breed

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